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Discussion Starter #1
common. I can stop you, without fail, with a kick to your solar plexus, but you will probably be ok in a few hours,or atmost, a day or two. I can stick you in the liver with an icepick,and you WILL die of it,but it may well take MANY minutes,even hours for you to pass out.

SO <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>, the LETHALITY of a given load is NOT really an issue. A .22 CB cap is "lethal", from a rifle barrel, up close, by the Military's standard of 60 ft lbs. A .177 pellet rifle is lethal, with a hit to the eyesocket. However, those loads are NOT stoppers of attacks,with just chest hits, and that IS what is desired, in a defensive gun. Whether or not the guy DIES is pretty much immaterial, as long as he stops. If he kills ormaims you or your loved ones, BEFORE he expires,and AFTER you shot him, it did NO good to shoot him. So,<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>,what we want is an INSTANT stop, not just "killing", seconds, minutes or hours after we shoot the sob.
 

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that is,in a "normal times' defensive shooting. However, if it's shtf, another sort of tactic comes to the fore. That is, CAUSING death, from ambush, as safely and efficiently as we can. A silenced, subsonic .22lr, from a rifle that CAN be a 223, is a nice option. It's rather easy to carry 1000 rds of .22lr, ya know. So LOTS of the dead will be carrying .22lr ammo, making it rather likely to be resupplyable. The RIFLE may need to be used a lot, the pistol better NOT be. with the OPTION of 1/4 mile range,real stopping power, penetration of Kevlar armor,car doors, windshields, etc, the 223 is of course far better than .22lr,until you run OUT of 223 ammo. It's rather easy to carry 4x as many 22lr's as 223, however,and as I said, .22 lr will be rather easy to replace. It's certainly easy to cache, NOW.

Without modern med care, a hit with a .22,to the torso, all the way to 150m, will almost certainly result in the EVENTUAL death of the "hittee". It may take him a week to die,of fever, infection,inability to function, but if you can manage to stay out of his reach for a few hours, he'll then be in no condition to pursue you any further.:) Subsonic 22lr's make so little noise that they don't scare rabbits at a mere 20 ft of distance, and yes,I DO mean to include the cycling of the .22 bolt. :)If your silencer AINT that quiet, it aint very good. In thick cover, you can hit 3-4 men, from 50-100m, and the "unhit" will still have NO IDEA where you are. All they will be able to do is eat dirt and PRAY night comes soon. :) That is a very appalling thing to have to face. Then have to either watch your buddies scream and bleed out from those .22 hits, , or kill them and take their gear, and realize that the same thing can happen again, and AGAIN, and next time,it will probably be YOU laying there with a .22lr in your guts.
 
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