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Discussion Starter #1
for your survival rifle. it's stupid, but for the moment, let's engage in trying to work around this stupidity. You could have a silenced 308 auto, a very long, bulky package, and a silenced .22 handgun, for small game. perhaps with a battery dependent optical sight, it could even serve for braining a man or a dog, to 10 yds or do, or a deer, but the .22 unit on the 223 AR would give you a LOT more effective range. The 22 handgun is so bulky and heavy that it probably precludes your also having a pocket 9mm, but perhaps not

However, practice with that handgun wont make you more skilled with your 308. practice with the .22lr unit on the AR, (without the silencer in place) WILL make you more skilled with the (silenced) AR.

If you cut the 308's barrel enough to make the gun handy with a silencer, much less to make it concealable while taken down, you lose all claim to more effective range than a shorty AR offers you (in 223) Your velocity from an 11" 308 barrel, will be 2300 fps, at best, with hot loaded 150 gr boatails, which aint a lot of power, about like a 30 AK (at best) 1550 ft lbs
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
you won't be able to use the most commonly availalble rifle rd (in the US) once shtf. people will wise up real fast once it's for real and they wont be lugging around ammo thats' 2x as heavy and bulky as need be. So you won' retrieve much 308 from the dead, after the first few weeks of shtf, at least, you MIGHT, however, find large piles of it, left behind by people who know better than to bother with it, so the ammo issue might be a wash, actually.

But with 8 lbs of shorty 308, a lb of steel scope mount, another lb of steel scope, another lb of steel bipod, 1.5 lbs of silencer, empty 20 rd mags weighing 7 ozs each, and ammo at 18 rds to the lb, your total weight, for 100 rds, ready to go, is 18 lbs. do you really want to waste lots of it, shooting at a guy behind cars, etc, letting him fire back at you (all of his friends, too) without silencers, while you GUESS where he/they are at behind the car? :) if they are smart enough to be truly dangerous, they will be using the engine block as cover anyway and no, your 308's will NOT pierce an engine block.

because your .22 handgun is less effective than the scoped .22 unit in the AR, you'll have to carry more ammo for it. so you'll have a 1.5 lb .22 (or more) and a lb of .22lr ammo. 135 rds. So now your total is 20.5 lbs and you still don't have a powerful sidearm. So, say you add 1.5 lbs of pocket 9 mm and ammo, total is 22 lbs. VS the 11 lbs of a carbon fiber shorty AR, with .22 unit, silencer, 50 rds each of 223 and .22lr, pocket 9mm ( 2 mags full of 9mm ammo) scope, cleaning gear, spare bolt (with firing pin, extractor, ejector, gas rings, cam pin, etc.

now, the 11 lbs that you are wasting by choosing the 308, COULD be utilized for far more useful items, like soft armor, water, food, medical kit, etc. and since you're stupid enough to value the 308, you probably think you want 4 lbs of .45 and ammo, and a pointless 10-15 lbs of inefficient other survival gear, too. So you end up lugging around a pointless extra 25+ lbs, (most likely) not 'just" 11 lbs extra. you're far, far more likely to need to alert, active, with food, water and armor, than you are to be able to profit from the tiny bit of power and penetration advantage that is offered by the 308.

also, you have to buy (or make) TWO silencers, one for your 308 and one for your .22 handgun, or you have to be stupid and not silence your rifle. Duh! :)

My way, the BOB totals 40 lbs. if you "think" you can move farther, faster and more quietly with 65 lbs than I can with 40 lbs, you're fos. Extra weight of gear means extra fatique, with its risks of not noticing something vital, being more prone to injury and illness, and for what gain? none, really. So why be stupid? you'll waste calories, need more water, more often, and you PLAN on missing (a lot) by trying to shoot thru cars, etc. Sure, maybe you'll succeed in the first case (or2) but the noise will call in 10 more enemeis and you'll be out of ammo for the 308.

why not just avoid contact, by staying underground during daylight hours, for the first year of shtf, hmm? why not have cached a year's supply of paraffin, grain, legumes, powdered milk, salt, and honey? It's less than $1000, a few drums, a few nights of digging, a rental storage that you probably already have
 

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Please display your BOB contents in detail, that is if you have one?
 
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I'm not inclined to rely on any single caliber. I use what I have/can get/ am experienced with/ have cached/ parts/ammo etc.
I DO have my preferences- even the smaller calibers I could lay hands on quickly have Eastern Bloc origins. But,I'd not turn don a properly set up 5.56. My own gear has as much to do with muscle memory as anything else. I have said it before, but I DO approve of the wider range of available options, as well as the modular nature of some conversions and parts swaps. They may have some residual ( but greatly improved) deficit of reliability/durability compared to a properly built/quality production AK or VZ,but when something DOES fail it tends to be more along the lines of " drift out lateral/axial/retaining pin,replace component " vs " Have Sergei hit with hammer! ".
 

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You (GK) seem to think that everybody buys into your ideas for SHTF. I don't need, or want, a short-barrel longarm. Or a silenced one. Don't see the real benefit.

Now don't start in telling your weird conceptions of how the world will react. Or how you personally will respond. For a while I thought that there was maybe hope for you, since some of your ideas were not too loopy. Now I hold no hope at all.

DC
 

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Personal in a semi auto rifle I prefer something with a .308 diameter bullet, my wife prefers something in 5.56mm, perfect solution, everything is covered. I also agree that a suppressor is a nice to have, but it is not mandatory. If they are legally available fine, buy one. If not you are going to be re-building your Bug out kit, every time you get out of prison, just like gun kid does. There are higher priorities for your money.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jerry wins with an AR in 223, fool. you dont even know that much? Jerry toys around with other crap, cause he's being paid by Cheaper than Nobody to promote their products. So he's not going to say "use this,it's all you need". The gun industry just loves people like Garand, cause he's so gullible about "needing" so much different gear. He aint much good with it, of course, cause he's lazy and stupid.
 

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I never did say, he competes with a Garand, I said he likes it. If I was lazy, I would pack like a minimalist like John does, with no consideration of the changes in the geographical location that he inhabits throughout the year. Nor does he consider his age, mind you I don't believe he was that motivated 40 years ago either.
 

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You know Melvin, the big difference between you and me? Is the fact I still have a lot of the gear I did 20 years ago, maybe because I didn't do stupid things like go to jail.
 
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One of these days somebody is going to make him eat that shorty AR, suppressor an all. Then he might shut up for a day or so about it. That is if he lives long enough without getting shot with a real caliber like a .308, 30-06 or some backwoodsman with a 30-30 or muzzleloader!
 

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What's hilarious is IF, and a big damn IF at that, he even had a AR shorty I can just imagine:
Most cheap assed components used in it's construction.
No staked gas key and Outer Elbonia made bolt carrier.
Rough and not chrome lined barrel, Hesse/Vulcan Arms factory seconds.
Dremelled out 80%, lower and upper spray painted flat black with Walmart Brand spray paint afterwards he huffed the leftovers
Barrel not properly tightened and obvious vice grip marks on the barrel nut.
No real handguards just chinese 550 cord, duct tape and bailing wire.
Airsoft grade cheap plastic stock, no name buffer tube assembly bought off fleabay.
Couple of old wore out and battered faded bronze colored 20rd mags.

And patterns like a shotgun at 25yards even with a decent scope on it.🤣😂🤣
 

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Oh yeah the can properly a Thrush Muffler JB welded to the muzzle.
Or, a POS PVC and Wire mesh composite that'll blow apart the first shot.🤪😛😆
 

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You seen his miracle gun then, hope you did not stand close when he tried to shoot it! Them broken pieces of plastic might hurt, Was it laughable as it fell apart?
 

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What's ironic is that I have two AR pistols and a few rifles.
One of the pistols is similar (and I cringe when typing this) in concept but not execution to his imaginary weapon but not a cheapo build although not a boutique build either.

Yeah I can imagine the contraption he'd have blowing up. Oh yeah what about his hand loaded ammo.
download (13).jpeg
 

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you won't be able to use the most commonly availalble rifle rd (in the US) once shtf. people will wise up real fast once it's for real and they wont be lugging around ammo thats' 2x as heavy and bulky as need be. So you won' retrieve much 308 from the dead, after the first few weeks of shtf, at least, you MIGHT, however, find large piles of it, left behind by people who know better than to bother with it, so the ammo issue might be a wash, actually.

But with 8 lbs of shorty 308, a lb of steel scope mount, another lb of steel scope, another lb of steel bipod, 1.5 lbs of silencer, empty 20 rd mags weighing 7 ozs each, and ammo at 18 rds to the lb, your total weight, for 100 rds, ready to go, is 18 lbs. do you really want to waste lots of it, shooting at a guy behind cars, etc, letting him fire back at you (all of his friends, too) without silencers, while you GUESS where he/they are at behind the car? :) if they are smart enough to be truly dangerous, they will be using the engine block as cover anyway and no, your 308's will NOT pierce an engine block.

because your .22 handgun is less effective than the scoped .22 unit in the AR, you'll have to carry more ammo for it. so you'll have a 1.5 lb .22 (or more) and a lb of .22lr ammo. 135 rds. So now your total is 20.5 lbs and you still don't have a powerful sidearm. So, say you add 1.5 lbs of pocket 9 mm and ammo, total is 22 lbs. VS the 11 lbs of a carbon fiber shorty AR, with .22 unit, silencer, 50 rds each of 223 and .22lr, pocket 9mm ( 2 mags full of 9mm ammo) scope, cleaning gear, spare bolt (with firing pin, extractor, ejector, gas rings, cam pin, etc.

now, the 11 lbs that you are wasting by choosing the 308, COULD be utilized for far more useful items, like soft armor, water, food, medical kit, etc. and since you're stupid enough to value the 308, you probably think you want 4 lbs of .45 and ammo, and a pointless 10-15 lbs of inefficient other survival gear, too. So you end up lugging around a pointless extra 25+ lbs, (most likely) not 'just" 11 lbs extra. you're far, far more likely to need to alert, active, with food, water and armor, than you are to be able to profit from the tiny bit of power and penetration advantage that is offered by the 308.

also, you have to buy (or make) TWO silencers, one for your 308 and one for your .22 handgun, or you have to be stupid and not silence your rifle. Duh! :)

My way, the BOB totals 40 lbs. if you "think" you can move farther, faster and more quietly with 65 lbs than I can with 40 lbs, you're fos. Extra weight of gear means extra fatique, with its risks of not noticing something vital, being more prone to injury and illness, and for what gain? none, really. So why be stupid? you'll waste calories, need more water, more often, and you PLAN on missing (a lot) by trying to shoot thru cars, etc. Sure, maybe you'll succeed in the first case (or2) but the noise will call in 10 more enemeis and you'll be out of ammo for the 308.

why not just avoid contact, by staying underground during daylight hours, for the first year of shtf, hmm? why not have cached a year's supply of paraffin, grain, legumes, powdered milk, salt, and honey? It's less than $1000, a few drums, a few nights of digging, a rental storage that you probably already have
Everything you posted about the .308 is wrong.
  1. my .308 suppressor is full auto rated and is less than a pound in weight
  2. why would I need to shorten the barrel? that's your requirement, not mine.
  3. I have a scope on my .308. it is not battery dependent but you can light the reticle if you desire. - without a battery it is still a 100% functional scope
  4. a .22 pistol is not very bulky at all, I'd carry my Mark II
  5. the pistol doesn't need to be silenced
  6. your paltry ammo supply will get you killed.
  7. your use of the .22 unit can get you killed - the firefight will be over before you even pop the pins to swap the BCG, drop the mag and put the .223 components back in.
  8. I know I can move faster with 65 lbs than you can with 40 lbs. (you have bad knees, bad back, circulation issues, and a leaky heart valve - all according to you)
  9. you don't have a BOB, you've never had one. You can't even provide a list of what's in it, let alone pictures.
  10. you haven't cached any of those things, you know it and we know it.
  11. the .308 has more than a tiny bit more power and penetration
  12. you need to get out and get some real experience.
 
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