[Glenn Bartley]

My first shotgun, my only shotguns, and all the shotgun I may ever need for hunting, self defense, home defense, and out and out fun is the Remington 870. I first owned a beautifully polished 870 Wingmaster with really high gloss wood, and deep blue metal. Sold it for a song when I got married - what a jerk! A few years later I bought an 870 Express combo with a 20 or 22 inch barrel (I should measure it - but I don't really care) with rifled sights, and also a 28 inch ribbed barrel. I have gotten a lot of use out of that one. I bought it in 1984 or there abouts give or take a year or two. It has gotten me a good number of deer, a bigger number of squirrel, some rabbits, and some birds too. It has taken one hell of a beating over the years and has never failed me. And can you believe it was made in NEW YORK! I gotta love the irony of that.....darned nest of liberal yahoos that I live in.....

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[kenster]

Glenn,
I have a couple of "scatter guns"...

My first ever gun was a single shot 410 that my dad bought me when I was a child. I am thinking that it may have helped out with the squirrel population, is about all. From there I bought myslef a Remington 1100 .20 LT, which I love and still use quite a bit for grouse and woodcock. I then bought a Mossberg 835, which I really enjoyed for geese and throwing 3 1/2" 00 buck was also another plus for me. Got a few deer with that as well as a lot of pheasants during a few ND trips. My newest "toy" is the Winchester super X2 mag. It is in the shadow grass wetlands pattern. I love this new gun, very nice looking, pulls up great, has a great swing to it. I spend a lot of time out in the duck blind, and i couldn't think of taking any other gun with me. Plus it matches my parka and waders, so I look damn good when I carry it I have had it a couple of years now and it has sent quite a few ducks and geese into the frying pan. This year I'm taking this baby to ND for pheasants, so I know I'll bring home my limit for sure..Well that is if I can can hit them of course

 

[CAV]

I guess mine could be called an antique now.

When I turned 12, I got my grandfather's 870. It was purchased a few years before he passed away in 1970. It sat oiled and unused for a dozen years. That was more than 20 years ago and I have used it every since. I bagged my first pheasent, blue quail, goose and countless doves with it over the years.

 

[G-lock]

I just have one shotgun and it's primarily for home defense. It's the HK/Fabarm FP6 w/ folding stock. I like it.

 

[Guest]

My ex Father-in law gave me my first shotgun: a Fox Model B, single trigger 12 ga. My ex-wife gave me the 2nd: 1975 (last year belgium steel) Browning 12 ga, 3" mag, ribbed 30" full choke. They were stolen in 1981... looking to replace them.
Any hints on where to start looking appreciated.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

You can always shop the online auctions and also place wanted adsin forums like the Want Ads of ArmsLocker.com. Gun List magazine (three times a month) may also be a good source to check. Two on line auctions are:

GunBroker.com Auction Arms.com

 

[Rich Z]

In addition to the sources Glenn mentioned, check out GunsAmerica.

I get myself in trouble most times I go to all of them!

 

[Guest]

Shotguns are poor weapons, in nearly

every sense. That's why they are tolerated by Big Brother, in some otherwise pretty oppressively antigun countries. Since they are just toys, I'd go with a 20 ga gas op autoloader, with a long, vent rib full choked barrel in 3" mags, for waterfowling type shooting, and a short, open choked vent rib, 2 3/4" chambering, with an optical sight for use with slugs or buckshot.

No longarm can do the job of the pistol, which is ccw, and one handed use. Once the fight moves outdoors, the shotgun's effective range, penetration, mag capacity, time for reloading, ammo cost, lack of easy stripping for cleaning, lack of take down for concealment, lack of rustproofing, lack of luminous sights, and other factors make it run a poor second to a good autorifle.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Sounds like you don't think much of shotguns. I on the other hand use a shotgun as my firearm/weapon of choice in many situations.

It is much preferable over any rifle in house clearing situations for law enforcement. It is also usually the better choice than a rifle in home defense situations involving armed intruders. It is just a better in close choice of weapon in many situations. It is more rapidly and easily brought to bear on target in close in combat. It is much more easy to hit multiple targets rapidly in close in combat with a shotgun than with a rifle. It utilizes a variety of shot or slugs. Some of the varieties of shot have a large amount of uses in close in combat that are preferable to single projectile rounds. The rounds, if chosen correctly, are less likely to over penetrate walls in a home defense situation but are more than sufficient to disable and armed assailant - and these rounds can be used in a pump action where as such might fail in a semi-auto - they cannot be used in an autoloading rifle with reliability. Shotguns are rather easily concealable with folding stocks. Many of them can also be easily 'taken down'; to some extent - and when this take down ability is combined with a folding stock the package is quite unobtrusive. Then again, as for it being concealable, I use mine legally and in the great majority of situations have never had a need to conceal it. Most combat style shotguns are readily available with rust preventive finishes and or matte finishes; and some are available in SS. Luminous sights are available for shotguns - I am truly surprised that you think otherwise. In certain situations it can also be used to breech walls, even cinder block walls more rapidly than even a large caliber rifle and with less risk of injury to the shooter - but this is truly an ultra emergency type of shooting to be done by well trained professionals as a last resort for entry or exit. As for shooting a shotgun outdoors, a 12 gauge firing slugs easily has an effective range of 125 yards, and in the hands of some shooter quite a bit further. Sure this range is easily outclassed by a rifle, however, there are plenty of situations - such as in a large metropolis - where a rifle with the longer range, and the more penetration power of its rounds at greater distances, would be the poorer choice.

Each weapon has its place. I am not saying that the rifle does not have its place, nor that it does not outclass the shotgun in many instances; however the shotgun certainly does have its place. In that place and in the hands of a competent shooter, it outclasses a rifle any day when the rifle is held by an equally competent shooter.


Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[Guest]

Actually, most of what you say is not

correct. For instance, 223 sp and hps can be had that penetrate LESS wall material than does #4 buckshot. At typical home ranges, the handgun is both faster to hit with, and a lot more likely to be at hand when needed. 12 ga ammo is so expensive, the blast so loud, that a sound suppressed 223 AR is more likely to be faster to get the hits. Most of such snapshooting practice with that rifle can be done for 2c per shot, via the .22lr conversion unit.

Time and money spent on the shotgun can't be spent on the( far more likely to be of value) hand to hand training, pistol, or rifle. The longarm is more of an apocolyptic type weapon than a readily-accessed defensive arm (like the pistol). If it's a riot or some sort of societal collapse, one is far more likely to need the many advantages of the autorifle. jOnce a typical riot barrel is beyond 20 yds from the target, on a cover user's head, it can't reliably put even one buckshot pellet on that head. Ditto the chest beyond about 30 yds. Many such barrels wont reliably put enough (ie, half the charge) buckshot pellets on the chest at even 25 yds. If you use a tight choke, you only have a 3" wide pattern at 10 yds, 2" wide at 20 ft, so it's no help at hitting anyone up close (as vs a pistol or rifle). shotgun slugs are inferior to rifles, for the reasons of expensive practice, heavy recoil (in non-autos, anyway) lots of blast and flash, inability to be suppressed, small mag capacity, not very penetrative, etc. The buckshot wont reliably pierce a tire, or even a windshield, at much beyond 20 ft. Check it out sometime.

 

[Rich Z]

Suppressed .223?? It was my understanding that attempting to suppress a supersonic bullet is a futile effort. Or is that just an old wive's tale?

 

[Guest]

ok, this requires a fairly in depth answer.

A supersonic load has an extra component in its sound signature, that of the bullet's cracking the sound barrier. That sound is creataed by the bullet itself, passing thru the air. So the suppressor has no effect on it. However, that sound is like that of breaking a pool cue over your knee. It's not nearly as hard on your accuracy, nor as carrying to enemies at a distance, as is the full blast of the unsuppressed rd. At right angles to the line of flight of firing, it's virtually inaudible at 200m in thick woods, or at .5 mile on open, flat terrain. The unnsuppressed blast is audible for 2 miles or more. Also, there's zero muzzleflash from a proper suppressor. That's of great value in the dark, you know.

If you lack electronic muffs, you either cant hear a thing after or before you fire (unmuffed for the former) , and may well never hear a thing the rest of your life, if you fire multiple 12 ga blasts in a small room.

The real test is what can be done on moving, cover using targets, against the timer. Those who practice a lot with such 223's and .22 units, get the hits a lot faster than the typical cop with a 12 ga pump can manage. At 50c per shot for slugs and buckshot, just how much practicing do you think that they are going to get, hmm?

 

[Aslan]

You have to understand, Gunkid is somewhat of a fanatic. He beleives that there is only one weapon that is any good for all situations - his suppressed 11" car with a .22 unit.

Even though this forum is supposed to be about shotguns - which is why I'm here, it will become yet another "look at me" post by GunKid.

I think shotguns have their place and are very effect CQB weapons.

As far as hearing loss, GK ignores the fact that Auditory Exclusion will occur under stress that will minimize the amount of damage done. (This is documented in many studies) This doesn't happen when practing at the range though.

I'd like to see the shotgun thread stay on topic.

 

[Guest]

bs, flinching is SUBCONSCIOUS. Whether

or not you NOTICE it, the blast STILL hurts your ears, still makes you flinch. It's just a question of how badly you flinch, how easy the shot is. You MIGHT still hit, you MIGHT still be able to hear something after such a blast, but BETTING your life on such is stupid.

 

[Guest]

bs, clowns "think" that they can just say

"time out" and go GET the "ideal" gun for a given situation. Sorry, but that's crap, and anyone can see that it's so. you are 4x as likely to be attacked when you are away from home. So much for having any longarm at the ready, eh? Also, in the home, smash ins, sneak ins, etc, are a lot more likely than other entries, which means you aint likely to get to any longarm in time, even at home. You dont answer your door with shotgun in hand. Nor do you take out the trash, get the paper, let out the dogs, cut your lawn, etc, with shotgun in hand. So the pistol is where it's at. If it's a riot, etc, you'd be way ahead with a good auto rifle, especially one that permits realistic practice with a .22 conversion unit. The reason that this is so is that you can be FASTER than you would be with the shotgun, by virtue of the ammo costing 1/20 th of what shotshells cost.

 

[CAV]

Dude......

LEOs or para-military forces involved in a riot control couldn't give $0.02 about the price of a shot shell or a centerfire round BECAUSE THEY WON'T USE EITHER. Do you really think that lethal force of that magnitude would ever even be considered in a civilized society???

Face it, YOU will never have to worry about fighting in a riot, shooting a sentry or a guard dog, foraging for twigs and berries, or packing your gun vault and 10,000 rounds through the great American countryside. Now turn off the PS and give SOCOM a break.

 

[jamullins]

for law enforcement shotguns are heady due to their ability to use other specialised ammo types not availible to regular firearms.
otherwise they are no better at any type of shooting than other weapons. And yes i include skeet, and i have practiced it for a while. it's very hard to do, especially for me (i'm an underacheiver)
but i have seen guys use MP5's and Uzi's on skeet with all the alacrity of a fowler with a Citori 12 guage loaded with Peter's No. 10's.

 

[Aslan]

Re: bs, flinching is SUBCONSCIOUS. Whether

or not you NOTICE it, the blast STILL hurts your ears, still makes you flinch. It's just a question of how badly you flinch, how easy the shot is. You MIGHT still hit, you MIGHT still be able to hear something after such a blast, but BETTING your life on such is stupid.

BS BS BS

YOU HAVE A FLINCHING PROBLEM

I saw on a thread at PN where you admitted as much - you said something to the effect that the can helps with your flinching.

Auditory exclusion is real. It is medically acknowledged. Look it up.

Not everyone flinches. I know people that can call their shots when hunting and put the round within the MOA limits of their rifle - while not wearing hearing protectors.

 

[Electrode]

My shotguns

Let's see, my first shotgun was a .20 guage barrel breach loader.
When I turned 18, fairly recently, I went out and bought a Mossberg Mavrick model 88 and threw on a pistol grip. I've just recently put the stock back on, but I've shot my share of 3InchMags out of it one handed.

[Edited]

I should have read more than page 1. Alot of arguing going on in here.

 

[jamullins]

i had an old model 12 with a 26" barrel for a while. a friend sold it to me after i commented on needing a shotgun to hunt with. it was great. we used to walk through a series of fields surounded by thickets of pines and look for quail. the gun shot well and was especially managible. it seemed to like any good 2 3/4" no. 4 load the best. i really got a kick out of shooting it. and im a dyed in the wool fenatic about shotguns making poor full on combat weapons.
so, i guess im trying to say i have high praise for my old model 12.