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Well like h my gawd, am I everrr gunna go out and get me a M-16 variant and convert it like to .22LR like really quick. I just can't stand it any longer - like I need to like get one like now and I like need to throw out all of my narly shotgun ammo and my 870. Like of gawd do I ever need to change my ways and then maybe someone will stop being such anm umitigated pain. Or better yet, maybe I'll take someone else's dvice and just start ignoring your posts........You know who I am referring to.....
 

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Discussion Starter #22
whoops that last thread was mine, I forgot to sign on.....
 

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I also have had a lot of use out of a shotgun over the years.It will probably do more things pretty well than any other weapon you can think of.A 12 ga. with an I.C. bbl,good peep sight,and quality ammo will stay on a pie plate all day at 100yds,it will also shoot small shot for wingshooting,and buckshot if you feel the need.Slugs are short on penetration past 100 yds,but here in the deep south the brush is heavy and the average shot is 30-40 yds.A LOT of deer are killed every year with buckshot too.I wont do that,but a lot of people seem to manage it ok.I reckon the shotgun gets high points for versatility and low points for heavy ammo and comparatiuvely short range capability.By the way-at 20 feet a 12ga,is absolutely lethal with any factory loading-Ive seen what a load of no.6 shot does at that distance.
 
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do you realize that at the muzzle a load of 12 guage buckshot is only getting about 200 or so ftlb.s og energy. and it is a round shot with nothing in the way of sectional density, and drops energy and velocity at a phenominal rate.
jamullins
 
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each pellet of 00 buck has 200-250 ft

lbs, depending upon the velocity of course. So a magnum charge of 00 Buck can have 2000 ft lbs, not 200, at the muzzle
 
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at 50 yds, each pellet of 00 is down

to 100 ft lbs or so, and it's down to 50 ft lbs at 100 yds. Unless you have a really tight choke, buckshot is relatively worthless for stopping men at 30m, and wont reliably put even one 00 pellet on a cover user's head at 25m. Slugs are expensive, and almost nobody practices with them enough to amount to a hoot, when under fire, much beyond 50m. That's a fact. buck pattern centers and slugs almost never share a common POI, so you have to sight in with one or the other, and HOPE that the other's poi is "close enough".
u can't effectively suppress the shotguns blast and flash worth a hoot, and that can be really bad news.
 
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Why does unregistered want to shoot people?

I have a few mossbergs & I use them to shoot targets or to hunt for dinner with.

I can't wait to hold one of those ruger gold labels.Maybe santa will waddle his fat little tuckus over to my house with one.:)
 
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Alright!Whats going on?I signed in again & posted only to find that i am also unregistered?the last post was also mine.
have i been banned or something?
jeffw
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Slugs are expensive, and almost nobody practices with them enough to amount to a hoot, when under fire, much beyond 50m. That's a fact.
This is absolute bs. Slugs pretty darned cheap, even when I do have to pay for them. I know quire a few fellows who regularly practice out to 100 yards with them, and I am not talking with Sabots, just the regular run of the mill dimple point(I never could see calling that dimple a hollow point) slugs. Hit a man size steel target every time.

But maybe you miss the whole point of the shotgun, it is a close in weapon superior to the pistol in that it gives you just enough extra reach. In pretty close quarters it is better than a rifle, and much easier to shoot from the hip or to snap to the shoulder. It is also a more versatile game getter than just about any rifle I can think of for a good hunter. It can be used with slugs for large game and can be used with shot for small game.

If you ever put a team together to do an entry on a real bad asses place, and you don't bring at least one shotgun, you are out of your mind. That is even when you have one or two rifles or carbines or sub-guns.

All the best,
Glenn B:cool:
 
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u HOPE that it will be "close in', because

beyond about 20 m, the shotgun is a pretty worthless item. Since everyone will be using cover, all you get is the head, for a second, as a target, and that means you aint going to hit it with a slug, and buck patterns have head sized holes in them beyond 20m. Slugs run 30-50 c a shot, so no, you dont fire 5000 of them a year, and a lot of the cheapo shotguns would'n't stand up to a year of such shooting. That's how many rounds it takes to be a decent hand with a riflle, at such snapshots, from either shoulder. Of course, you haven't THOUGHT about what happens when you fire right handed around the left side of cover. That's typical of shotgunners, no experience, no THINKING.

No flashider at night, so you lose your night visiion with the FIRST shot you fire. Under fire, you are UNABLE to adequately judge range, so you wind up using buckshot at too great a range, or slugs up too close. At 10 rds to the lb, you aint carrying many, nor will you be able to replace them with any great likelihood of success. Indoors, the blast is so bad that without ear protection, you will nearly fall ldown from the concussion.

Ever TRIED using a pump, while prone, hmm? Ever tried reloading a tube mag, in the dark, rain, mud, snow, with gloves on or with cold numbed fingers, while prone? Your crystal ball is SO good, and you can of COURSE lug around both 15 lbs of rifle and ammo, and 15 MORE lbs of shotgun and ammo, right? plus 5 lbs of .45 and lots of mags and ammo for it, of course. along with the 40 lbs of other gear that typical inepts need to last a week. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #33
You talk the talk but don't have a clue as to my shooting abilities. Anytime you would like to test them, pay me a visit and we will go to a range together where I will have you eat your words. No I do not shoot 5,000 rounds of shotgun a year, nor do you shoot 5,000 rounds of ammo through any one particular rifle that you own, do you? I by the way do shoot left handed as well as strong handed with a shotgun. I do know how to shoot around cover left or right, under or over or right through it in some instances. I have breacehed a cinder block wall with 12 gauge slugs, I'd like to see you do that with a rifle round in even triple the time it took to do it with 12 gauge.

As to using a pump action while prone, piece of cake. I even can cycle it one handed. Yes I can reload with gloves too and whhooooeeee in the dark also.

As for all that lugging around of ammo, are you delerious?

You must be the same unregistered user causing trouble onn the other forums. You talk the talk, and it is, in my opinion, all bs.

You really are, in my opinion, quite the ignorant braggart when it comes to the various uses of different firearms, and the case to be made for each in different settings.
 
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yeah, you and your crystal ball that

TELLS you when to have your bolt sniper, your AK, your shotgun, your Uzi, and so on, right? I run into ignorant bozos like you every day, and I show them up, just like I show you up. I've got $5000 that says that if you come to Durango, CO, with your $500, that I can make you eat [bleep] about nearly everything you claim. ESPECIALLY your bs about the knife, me with a gun on you at 6 ft.; Hell, you'd never touch me if I DIDN'T have a gun. I'd just throw change, hat, glasses, coins in your face, and break your leg, and laugh at you laying on the floor, right before I shoved that knife up your ass crosswise. :_0
 

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5000 rds a yr, thru .22 unit in AR-15 is

nothing much, as is 1000 rds of 223, but with a suppressor on that shorty AR, the 223handles EXACTLY like the unsuppressed .22 unit. That "canned"223 is every bit as fast for hitting up, close as the typical bozo is with a pump 12 ga and buckshot, BECAUSE he does'n't practice, and with a scope, it's got at LEAST 3x the effective range, too. So why bother with the shotgun at ALL, hmm? It offers nothing to make up for all the good things that you give up to get it, like penetration, rustproofing, drop in luminous sights, one hand usage, .22 unit, use of GI rd,parts,mags, ease of cleaning in the field, concealment, drop in trigger job, range, mag capactity, etc. There's no END to how much better the CAR-15 and .22 unit is, both for survival foraging and combat than is any shotgun.
 

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Shotgun load question from "Hollywood" scenario

About ten years ago a movie "Heat" came out with DeNiro and Pacino- a LA based "crew" that specialized in high-end, high-risk robberies. Near the end Pacino and his LE partner, who carried a pump shotgun, approach a closed door, and partner empties the magazine tube, reloads, pumps the action and blasts the two hinges off the door, and they break into the room and corner the "evildoer". I'm a plumber by trade, not a finish carpenter, but most of the doors I've seen in new builds have three hinges- also, what kind of shell would blast away the metal hinge and screws to free the door from the jamb?
 

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