[John in AR]

...beat the .90 second of the optical sighted AR, for reaction, raise and hit of a 10" gong at 25 yds, from low ready?

Get on the timer, and TRY matching my .90 second time for the AR, liar.

That's a little sad, John. I've posted video of me doing 0.90 seconds for TWO hits from low ready, safety on, on a C-zone target at 34 yards (I was trying for 100 feet when I paced it out, but when I checked with my rangefinder it came out to 102 feet).

And here's the kicker: I'm not great. I'm decent, but I'm not great and certainly have no right to claim world-class status as you so often do.

What makes you think you have the right to constantly claim "world class" status, when your own challenge times show that you're slower than this past-his-prime hillbilly...? And remember - I've shown video of my times. You haven't even demonstrated anything; not even the slower-than-hillbilly times that you believe are something to brag about.

 

[Terry G]

I don't have a centerfire lever action, but I do have a lever Mossberg .22. You cock the hammer as the rifle is brought up to your shoulder. You don't bring it your shoulder then cock it. Some people's kids.

 

[Garand]

Melvin, running a lever action isn't that difficult, as long as you practice. By the way this is my wife at 2:45
2013 "Winter Range" Cowboy Action Shooting Championship - YouTube

 

[Pistolero]

.9 second for a first shot is S . . . L . . . O . . . W! If I need to shoot that fast then I'll use my pistol, and double or triple tap any stationary target in less than half that time! Otherwise I'll continue using one of my lever-action carbines in the same way that I've done for more than a half-century, now. If I've got one in the chamber then I keep the hammer on half-cock.

Like I said, in over half a century of hunting with and shooting these guns I have never had a centerfire rifle, or a 22 LR round accidentally discharge on me. (Which is more than I can say for my bolt-action 30-06 Sako FinBear.)

Lever guns are plenty fast! Just curious, why create a problem where there isn't one?

 

[John in AR]

...Care to claim that you can use a hammer down lever action, and beat the .90 second of the optical sighted AR, for reaction, raise and hit of a 10" gong at 25 yds, from low ready? Same .90 second for V notched Iron sights, on torso at 25 yds, or 1.0 second with peep sight for torso. You need 1.5 seconds with the lever, without a doubt.

If you claim under 1.5 seconds, it WILL BE a lie. Tell the truth, about 2 seconds, and I won't say anything, except:" I told you so".

Out of curiosity, I tried it. My old .357 levergun, chamber loaded and trigger let down to half-cock; c-zone target, so 12” instead of 10”; and turned out to be 21 yards instead of 25. But not only didn’t take “about 2 seconds”, didn’t take 1.5 seconds, and didn’t even take .90 seconds. Did it twice, and came up with 0.48 and 0.50; so 0.49 on average.

I was surprised; I assumed it would take longer than that, but I’ve never timed it before and “assumptions are dangerous things“ as they say.

 

[John in AR]

And to save gunkid the embarrassment of calling me a liar:

 

[Dorobuta]

This is the difference between thinking about a thing and doing it.

once again, we see how reality bites someone squarely on the ass. But they won’t be along to either defend their position nor admit they were mistaken

 

[John in AR]

I was genuinely surprised myself; I'd never timed anything on the levergun and really thought it would be substantially slower that it was. I'm sure that a big part of it is because it's a gun I've had since the mid-90's and have used a lot, so there's a huge degree of familiarity there. But that would be true with a very-familiar gun of any action type - it's not anything inherently positive or negative about leverguns as a species.

 

[Garand]

Invest in a Winchester M73 clone, have an action job done and those timings will shrink.

 

[Garand]

New world record lever action rifle - YouTube

 

[John in AR]

Fwiw, did it a second time. Since the first video only shows the target and not the gun, I wanted to re-do it to avoid any claims that the gun was pre-cocked, pre-aimed, the distance was short, etc. Also went ahead & put on gloves for the second run-thru, to see if they would make things slow or clumsy. And to further make it as 'worst case' as possible did it right before sunset, putting the sun almost directly in my eyes this second time around.

Same drill as before; two iterations of one-shot up drill on a timer. Ran 0.45 and 0.56 this time, so even wearing gloves and with the sun in my eyes, was still only between 0.50 and 0.51 second on average.

And JMD - my main point is still as I've said before: I'm NOT great. I'm good, but not great. There are a whole lot of people that are MUCH better than me. So to think that sub-1-second times with a levergun are impossible is just silly. Demonstrably silly and demonstrably wrong. So in the face of video evidence disproving your hypothesis, will you admit your error?

 

[John in AR]

New world record lever action rifle - YouTube

That's crazy fast, especially starting with an empty chamber as he did.

 

[Dorobuta]

I was genuinely surprised myself; I'd never timed anything on the levergun and really thought it would be substantially slower that it was. I'm sure that a big part of it is because it's a gun I've had since the mid-90's and have used a lot, so there's a huge degree of familiarity there. But that would be true with a very-familiar gun of any action type - it's not anything inherently positive or negative about leverguns as a species.

That's just it, this underscores the fact that it is NEVER a waste of time to be familiar with different types of weapons, contrary to what some self-proclaimed experts might think. You are light years ahead of anyone that is a one trick pony.

 

[John in AR]

...Care to claim that you can use a hammer down lever action, and beat the .90 second of the optical sighted AR...

Yes. See above videos as evidence.

Get on the timer, and TRY matching my .90 second time for the AR, liar.

See above videos. You are correct that your .90 second AR time wasn't matched - it was shattered. Four iterations shown in the videos above to show that it wasn't a fluke; and the average was 0.4975 second. Your .90 second time with a modern auto rifle is 81 percent slower than this over-the-hill, desk-jockey hillbilly does with an old levergun, yet you think it's a brag-worthy accomplishment.

If you claim under 1.5 seconds, it WILL BE a lie. Tell the truth, about 2 seconds

You're proven wrong again here. See above videos.

...Not that some guys who REALLY work at it can't get such hits with lever actions in 1.2 seconds, but that's still much slower than the AR's time, and such guys dont waste their time playing with every other gun under the sun.

I play around with numerous guns. And still beat your (claimed but undemonstrated) time by more than 80%. Hmmm...

...Such dissapation of resources is why I say it's stupid to bother with all the second and third rate guns.

So even with my 'dissapation' (which isn't a word, btw) of skill, you're still 80% slower with an AR than this old hillbilly is with a 19th-century levergun.

... Real ability is what matters, not being half assed good with dozens of different guns.

It's good to acknowledge that ability is what actually matters. You've demonstrated none, by the way. And your undocumented, unproven claims are still slower than a whole lot of people's demonstrated ability.

And again, this is NOT a bragging thing. I am NOT great with a gun. I'm decent, but there are a whole lot (a WHOLE lot) of men & women both who are better than me. If you'd like to know why my ability exceeds yours, it's simply because I do recognize that I'm not great; that I always have substantial room for improvement. You believe your abilities are somehow mythically stunning, yet even when you make unproven claims to "prove" your prowess, even those inflated claims (as repeatedly demonstrated in this thread) are not particularly impressive by modern standards. By 1970's standards they might have been; that could well be true. I didn't start shooting competitively until 1977 or 78, and that was very small scale local stuff. But the performances of the "top guys" back then are paltry compared to performances of even mid-level guys today.

If there are reasons you can't do some things, you can always find workarounds. Use airsoft, whatever, and you could still build some actual ability. Completely serious on that. There's no reason to just wish you had some ability, when you can actually create some if you'd be willing to do what it takes.

{edited because the site won't allow the word '*******'. (Seven letters, rhymes with 'dead neck'). So edited to use 'hillbilly' instead. See John? Workarounds are an actual thing...)

 

[Garand]

Just curious, with all the useless talk about timings rather than familiarity, is Melvin gone back to that fixation that SHTF is just going to be one big IPSC match? Melvin survival is going to be about more than how fast you clear leather, sorry to burst your bubble. In relation to firearms its about tactics, bushcraft, familiarity of the firearm(s) that you have access to, type and amount of ammunition you have, etc.