if I wished, ya know. 80 grs at 2100 fps, no hp, no slit nose, no deepening of the grease groove, in a 4" .45 ACP barrel. 790 ft lbs. If all it wastes on overpenetration of aman's chest is 1/3rd of its power, it's still delivering 520 ft lbs, far more than the 230 gr, 900 fps .45 jhp delivers, even if it DOES actually expand and stop in the man. 410 lbs is all such a load HAS, ya see. 80 grs at 2100 fps recoils no worse than 210 grs at 900 fps, so it's 10% easier to control than the plus P 230 gr load, too. And it's still AP on 18 layers of Kevlar, too. Of course, I'd be rather tempted to deepen the chamber and use 460 brass, get the bullet to 2200fps. Any way you look at it, big heavy slow, is NOT the way to go.