[Terry G]

Inventorying my ammunition, I find exactly 74 rounds of 115 Gr HP left. Anyone know where I can buy more? I have plenty of 94Gr. HP but I like the 115 Grain.

 

[John in AR]

Only 115 I know of any more is the (imo stupid) lead bullet from Buffalo Bore. I say stupid because I can't think of anything that it will do that cheaper fmj won't; but that's personal opinion obviously.

The silver bear 115 jhp was discontinued some years ago I believe. It makes a very different gun out of a 9x18; giving right about 9x19 ballistics from a PPK-size P-64.

Silver Bear 115 9x18 is the one outlined in blue; 15" penetration and very respectable expansion:

 

[Terry G]

Thanks for the response. I was pretty sure no more Silver Bear was coming into the country. Too bad, Maybe the round was too hard on non-eastern bloc guns?

 

[John in AR]

Afaik, the 94 grain silver bear is still coming in, but it was years ago that I last checked so I could be wrong. I'm wanting to say that the xtp did surprisingly well in 9x18 for some reason. Again, it's been a long time so I may very well be remembering wrong.

 

[gripper]

Inventorying my ammunition, I find exactly 74 rounds of 115 Gr HP left. Anyone know where I can buy more? I have plenty of 94Gr. HP but I like the 115 Grain.

That's actually my preferred load in a resprung Makarov or a CZ82...what it does do is feed,f function and bit VERY hard for the caliber. I like the HCFP for medium bore pocket rockets like this both for the previously outlined reasons and the flat point gives a nice balance between penetration(in both flesh and intermediate barrier material)and tissue disruption.
For hollow points to really be worth it to me,I prefer more bullet weight/diameter and/or more velocity(even the Wolf Gold Hollow Points in 7.62x25 were QUITE impressive across the board.

 

[justme]

"for the caliber", Eh? Well, stingers hit just as hard, from a .22 rifle. The 115 gr mak means 900 fps, or less which is not going to expand the bullet in the vitals. So you waste a third of your 200 ft lbs on over penetration. The stinger wont exit, so it wastes none of its 165 ft lbs. You can do much, much better, with a considerably smaller and lighter gun. The CM9 kahr is just $400, 15 ozs, 6" long, and can get 100 gr corbons to 1350 fps, which will expand the jhp in flesh, giving you 400 ft lbs. Hitting twice as hard is well worth doing. Even the 9mm aint all that great a manstopper, b ut the Mak might as well be a .22lr, for no more power than you get.

 

[John in AR]

On the "might as well be a .22LR" lunacy...
Saying that a 115-grain JHP bullet, which DOES run at over 1,000fps, from a P-64 which is identical in size to the smallest .32 pocket pistol walther made, "might as well be a .22LR" is idiotic. From a pocketable gun (as the P-64 is), the Stinger runs 54 ft/lbs (FA mini-revolver) to 58 ft/lbs (Beretta 21A). Even in a much larger, non-pocketable gun with a 4.75" barrel, the Stinger only achieves a pitiful 74 ft/lbs.

...The 115 gr mak means 900 fps...

Again, you're just wrong; making baseless decrees, conjured up only from your assumptions and biases. I've more than once posted about the SB 115 getting an average of 1,004 fps from the tiny P-64.

I've never personally chrono'ed it from the larger Makarov pistol, but this one shows the same load at 1,040 and 1,043 fps from a Bulgarian Makarov.

If you would simply find things out before jumping to uninformed pontifications, and if you weren't so bent on insulting things you either don't like or don't understand, you'd show your lack of knowledge a lot less often, wouldn't you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UfW5w1Uzfg

 

[John in AR]

And before you ask "can't you read"... Yes, I know you said .22 rifle when talking about the stinger.

But I was being kind. We're talking about ammo for pocket pistols, not rifles. So your "this rifle is as good as this pistol" is insane on the surface, even if it were true; which is isn't. The pocket gun with the 115 has more surface area UNexpanded than the stinger has expanded. The stinger has less than 40 percent of the area if it doesn't expand, which (in a handgun, as this thread is about) is quite likely. The stinger (even from a rifle, which is insane in this conversation to begin with) still has only 58% of the muzzle energy of the 115 from the pocket gun. And muzzle energy is crucial in a defensive firearm. If we keep the comparison to concealable pistols (ie, the topic of this thread), the stinger has right at one-fourth (27-28%) the muzzle energy of the 115 mak; even from the ultra-concealable P64.

You don't like the mak caliber. We get it. I personally never use it anymore, and never carry the P-64 anymore. But the fact that it's not my personal-favorite caliber doesn't change the mathematical reality.

Fwiw, reality is pretty cool. You might want to dip your toe in it sometime.

 

[justme]

if you consider 6.7" long "pocketable", you're a joke. Again, shoot some animals with both and you'll see that I'm correct. if you dont hit ENOUGH harder, then there's no difference. all you're talking is statistics. when you hit same critters with the 9mm Corbon, you WILL see far superior effect to the bs 115 gr mak load and no you dont get 1000 fps. You barely get 1050 fps with the 105 gr bullet amnd 1000 fps aint enough to expand a jhp reliably anyway. you need at least 1200 fps, in the .36 bore. 1000 fps is barely enough with the much larger nose cavity of a .45.

 

[justme]

this mak load wont reliably stop a chuck or a ****, just like .45 ball wont. check it out for yourself. This ignorance about the facts of the matter, talking paper ballistics bs, should have gone out 30 years ago. wtf settle for 200 ft lbs of non expanding bullet, when a lighter, smaller gun can give you 400 ft lbs? cause you;re stupid, that's why.

 

[gripper]

And the song&dance routine continues......

 

[Terry G]

this mak load wont reliably stop a chuck or a ****, just like .45 ball wont. check it out for yourself. This ignorance about the facts of the matter, talking paper ballistics bs, should have gone out 30 years ago. wtf settle for 200 ft lbs of non expanding bullet, when a lighter, smaller gun can give you 400 ft lbs? cause you;re stupid, that's why.

When exactly, have you shot a woodchuck or a raccoon with a Makarov? You were a non-shooter (convicted felon) before the gun or cartridge was readily available in this country. Your a liar.

 

[John in AR]

if you consider 6.7" long "pocketable", you're a joke.

My P-64 isn’t 6.7” long. I consider it to be “pocketable” because I know it's pocketable. The reason I know that it's pocketable is that for literally years, I carried it in my front pocket. :unhappy:

Actually doing stuff; it's better than just assuming stuff.

I’ve repeatedly said – and YOU have repeatedly said – that the Kahr CM9/PM9 is a great pocket gun. This is the CM9 side-by-side with the P-64. You maintain that the one on the left is a great example of a pocket gun, while claiming that trying to pocket-carry the one on the right is “a joke”.

…no you dont get 1000 fps...

So now you’re back to calling me a liar again. Awesome. I’ve chrono’ed THAT load, from THAT gun, five times. THAT load, from THAT gun ran 1016, 1006, 994.1, 1004, and 999.6 fps, respectively. (My chronograph gives one decimal place if under 1,000 fps, and integer only above 1,000 fps) That’s an average of 1,003.94 fps. From THAT load, out of THAT gun.

So I’ll ask bluntly. Are you saying that I’m lying?

edit - Are you saying that I'm lying, you ignorant, drug-addled fool?

 

[John in AR]

this mak load wont reliably stop a chuck or a ****, just like .45 ball wont...

So .45 auto hardball is inadequate for 20-lb mammals. That's priceless. :laugh:

John, I've stopped armadillos and possums with .380 fmj/fp. Multiple times. I've also stopped them with 45acp 185 jhp, 9mm (even the low-energy 147 hi-shok), .22LR from a pistol and .38spl 158 swc.

Again, actually doing stuff, it's better than reminiscing of things past; things done 40 years ago and seen thru a drug-induced fog... :nope:

 

[John in AR]

Terry - I was cruising around some other sites and came across this compilation of 9x18 ammo options. It's long, but has chrono results for 90+ mak loads, all from a Bulgarian makarov pistol.

I was surprised to see that the 115 grain brown bear averaged 1001 fps. The 115 buffalo bore ran even faster, at 1031 fps. Corbon 95 ran 1135, and the lighter 70 grain pow'rball ran 1348 fps.

If you want to try something less mainstream, the rbcd 45 grain ran more than 1500 fps.

Fwiw, they show the old silver bear 115 as running 1015 fps, which is in line with what I experienced with it, so that tends to lend credence to their numbers imo.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?299-9x18-Ammunition-Data-Post

(Edit because autocorrect put 'raced' instead of 'rbcd'.)

 

[gripper]

Even some of the old school Eastern Bloc military ball- and I mean even before the"9x18 High Impulse/PMM specific" ammo- was pretty consistent... I had good results from a lot of LVE stuff many years back. The caliber IS more capable than many realize,mainly because of the unfortunate combination of a wholesaler marketing" Hungarian PA63 " and " Czech 82 Black Bullet" in the same sales... that is some SERIOUSLY harsh buyer's remorse.

 

[Terry G]

Interesting link, John. I never knew there were that many 9X18 cartridge types. I just ordered the Silver Bear HP's to fill up my inventory. Sportsman's Guide had a double discount, free shipping deal going on, so I figured I would stock up on 9X19, .45 ACP, some 7.62X39 Soft Point, and .30/06 PPU. By the way, the gunbelt from crossbreed is great. Seven sizing holes, so IWB or OWB works. My concealment holsters work well with the 1 1/2" width. Thanks a lot for the heads up.

 

[justme]

any blowback purchase, other than .22lr, will cause remorse, sooner or later.

 

[gripper]

The steel frame guns(P64/73,Makarov PM,PMM,CZ82) are good to go -even with the stock springs assuming you don't get too rambunctious with the " warm " handloads. I still default to caution and resprung everything. But those alloy Hungarian guns? Great to " carry a lot,shoot VERY little". I'm not even sure of the durability with sedate ammo. Those work MUCH better as .32's and .380's

 

[Terry G]

any blowback purchase, other than .22lr, will cause remorse, sooner or later.

Maybe, but the remorse won't be on the shooter's part.