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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
was happening, in the NYC liquor stores where he and his partner would be "staked out" (because the same store was being robbed DAILY, by the same junky). They'd be hidden in some closet, etc, and be unable to see what was what. So Jim would just put his hand in his pocket, on his Detective Special .38 snubby, and walk out there, pretending to be just another customer. When he determined that the guy was an armed robber, he'd jerk out the .38, and yell "Police". Over 80% of the 240 odd guys had LEARNED (after the first few month of the Stakeout Unit's formation) from the "street talk" to drop their weapons INSTANTLY, because if they DIDN'T, Jim would put the entire 6 rds into them in about 1.5 seconds. Similarly, he'd lean around a corner, shotgun AIMED at the robber, and "challenge". If the guy turned toward him at ALL, Jim would blow him up. Ditto the other half a dozen guys. So MANY of the 20% of HARDCORE junkie-robbers (in Harlem, LATE 1960's) WOULD have given up, if they'd had the CHANCE.

Most of those guys were multiple felons, faciing LIFE in prison, out of their minds on dope, the racial hatred of that era, etc, and STILL 80% surrendered, rather than be shot. So a private party, who AINT sending them to jail if they just split, has a 90% chance of NOT having to HIT an attacker with a bullet, , in order to stop an attack. THAT'S why jokes like .25's, .32's, derringers, mini-revolvers still find guys ignorant enough to buy them. They DO suffice as "bluffs" So do M21 pocket .22lr Berettas, but the Beretta can ALSO be a canned shtf gun, and an accurate kit gun for taking small critters, while on the trail.

So getting your gun VISIBLE to the attacker, in TIME for him to see it and stop. is actually FAR more important than anything else. So speed of draw is THE THING. Since almost nobody wants to WORK at such, the only realistic answer is a pocket auto, and having you hand ONE the gun, inside a slick holster, any time you MIGHT be facing an attack. from there, it's at MOST .60 second to react draw, and get the gun VISIBLE, and there's at least the potential of a clandestine draw(from hand in pocket) so there goes the .20 second of your reaction-time off of the total. Actually, with a truly small gun, by the time he REALIZES that you pulled out a gun instead of a wallet, it's too late for him to do much, ESPECIALLY if he has no gun, but rather only a knife, club, etc. It might be some other sort of attack, not "just" a robbery. It could be a rape, even a homosexual one. It could be somebody who just hates men of your race, or a guy whose girl you "took", or who is just drunk or mad at the world. Most such attacks are NOT made with a gun, and if you are determined, and have 5-6 ft of space between you and the attacker, and you know enough to MAKE more space, ASAP, you will be ok with "just" a pocket .22. In fact, you can be MORE ok, actually, than if you waste 1.5 seconds fumbling under TWO coats (in bad weather) for a belt rig, shoulder rig, groin holster, fanny pack, etc, for a bigger, heavier gun.
 

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Cirrillo defitnetly was in alot of fights

I have to wonder though how much of his actual gunfighting experience is relavent to the armed citizen? Most of his shoot outs consisted of "sniping" from a prepared ambush, not a very likely senerio for an armed citizen.

One thing is for certain though, in his book "Guns, Bullets and Gunfights" he expresses his preferance for Glocks over all others :p

Hmm....maybe he isn't quite so sensative as you JD and has some trigger controll skills. :p

Teuf,
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Jim was never very good, actually

at speed stuff. He's an old hunter, and PPC guy, convinced that DA revolvers are where it's at. He favors the Glock because it gives the half-assed cop a better chance than does a .38 revolver, that's all. He couldn't get an open wear El Presidente under 11 seconds, with a 1911, to save his soul in May of 1976, at the Columbia Conference, and get all 12 hits on the IPSC silohuette. He was AMAZED at my ability to do same in a lousy 8 seconds. None of us had (yet) worked on the El Pres at that time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
if u r wearing armor, and AMBUSH

the guy, and have a friend shooting at the guy, too, you could say that. If, on the other hand, they get to START the fight, (as crooks DO, ya know) and you have no armor, and there's more than one of them, lack of speed will get you killed, unless you are VERY lucky indeed.; More so if you use a feeble load, of course.
 
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