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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
50% of their shots. A near miss, and the occasional hit still suffices to "deny" the enemy the free use of the sniper's AO. The sniper's "scouting" mission is still useful, even if he never fires a shot. He can call in arty or air strikes, make maps and records of what he notices, etc.

So, in effect, the militarysniper's target is TWICE the size of a real man's torso, since he only has to hit it with HALF of his shots. The civilian survivalist, however, better NEVER fire, unless he HAS to hit, and if you HAVE to hit, then you'd better get TWICE as close as must the bozo who doesn't CARE if he misses or not. The civilian better just remain UNDETECTED, in nearly all cases.

Like little kids, most wannabe sniper types equate WANTING to hit with NEEDING to hit. If I put a gun to your head, and you fire at 10 torsos, 1 shot each, and the FIRST miss means I blow your head off, you will DEFINITELY want the ranges to be half as long as you are willing to risk when there's really nothing riding on the shot. As a survivalist, EVERY such shot has your life riding on it. Which is why I say you are fos with your bs claims about 1/2 mile shots with 308's. You ASSUME ideal firing conditions, good health, etc, and NONE of that is likely to be the case if shtf.
 

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:confused: What army were you in? Op-teams are responsible for reconnaissance and on-sight intelligence. Snipers are fielded to HIT THEIR TARGETS. Every time a sniper fires he risks his life in the act. Why would any sniper place himself in jeopardy for a lousy miss? Read the life story of Carlos Hathcock; he, sure as Hell, wasn't out there to reconnoiter; and he never would have made it home, again, if he were the kind of sniper who relied on second shots!

Are you absolutely certain that you're not posting and drinking at the same time? :rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Carlos missed with 40+% of his shots,

so he did really little better than luck with a lot of his longer shots. How do you FIGURE, when he had a nice safe base to be choppered back to, every week or so, air strikes and arty to call in, and all the enemy had was ignorant rice growers, with nothing but AKS? A sniper should never present more of a target (after firing) than a head, bobbing around cover, or a fleeing, dodging torso. Those Gooks had no likelihood at all of hitting such targets at a lousy 200 yds. So Carlos was almost perfectly safe, any time he fired at 300+m. He certainly had access to superb medical care, and after 1 year, could, and would, be flown 8000 miles away, to forget all about it, if he so chose. The survivalist will have no such luxuries. If the .45 had been at his head, for each shot, Carlos would have kept his ranges twice as short, count on that. :) YOu have NO control over the wind suddenly gusting, or lulling, or the target moving, ya know.
 

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:mad:
223 fan said:
Carlos missed with 40+% of his shots, so he did really little better than luck with a lot of his longer shots.
Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock has 93 CONFIRMED one-shot kills on his record; the longest range kill occurred at nearly 2300 meters!

223 fan said:
How do you FIGURE, when he had a nice safe base to be choppered back to, every week or so, air strikes and arty to call in, and all the enemy had was ignorant rice growers, with nothing but AKS?
Do you mean; ‘Nothing but AK’s? Yeah, right, obviously you’ve never had to face one! Ever hear of an SKS, or a Dragunov? The former, like it's successor the AK-47, is easily effective on man-size targets out to 350 meters; and the latter, while recommended by the Russian military for sniping out to 1300 meters, is actually an efficient 800 meter weapon – Not an M-14 by any means; but, also, not too shabby for a semi-automatic action!

If you were familiar with the life of a man, whom you’re obviously not fit to disparage, you’d know that Gunnery Sergeant Hathcock is a viable candidate for the Congressional Medal of Honor. There was nothing, ‘safe’ or 'comfortable' about Hathcock’s time in Viet Nam; and some of the enemy he fought against were equally as skilled at sniping as he was! Hathcock and his spotter did NOT have the option of calling in air strikes or artillery; wherever did you get that rubbish from? (Never mind - I can guess!)

223 fan said:
A sniper should never present more of a target (after firing) than a head, bobbing around cover, or a fleeing, dodging torso. Those Gooks had no likelihood at all of hitting such targets at a lousy 200 yds. So Carlos was almost perfectly safe, any time he fired at 300+m. He certainly had access to superb medical care, and after 1 year, could, and would, be flown 8000 miles away, to forget all about it, if he so chose.
The truth is that YOU DON’T HAVE A CLUE – do you!

223 fan said:
The survivalist will have no such luxuries. If the .45 had been at his head, for each shot, Carlos would have kept his ranges twice as short, count on that. :) YOu have NO control over the wind suddenly gusting, or lulling, or the target moving, ya know.
Again, YOU DON’T HAVE A CLUE! That’s it; I won’t reply to any more of your nonsensical posts. You don't belong on any weapons forum.
 
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u r one ignornant stupe. If I put a gun

to your head, and was going to kill you if you missed, you'd INSIST on firing at no more than half the distances an idiot like you THINKS he can hit at.

Hey, stupe, the sniper doesn't OFFER you a patient, fully exposed, erect torso as a target. All you EVER get is a bobbinng head, around cover, or at best, a fleeting, dodging torso, and no, you do NOT get hits on such targets beyond 200 yds with your sks, I don't care WHO you are. Those ignorant gooks, with AK'S, couldn't hit such a mark at 100 yds, except by pure luck. You ever TRY training any of them? They TOTALLLY lack enough understanding of geometry, mechanics, physiology to realize WHY they have to lead a moving target, why they have to allow for wind, mirage, longer ranges, etc.
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YOu ever SHOT a Druganov? They group at BEST 2" at 100 yds, often can't reliably hit a head at 250 yds, and the scope used on them,in Nam, was a cheezy little 2.7x thing, with POOR light gathering qualities. Not only that, but there probably wasn't 500 of them in the entire SE Asian theater.,much less as many guys who knew jack squat how to make them effective.
 
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Oh, there's a realistic scenario, you with a .45 to Carlos Hathcock's head and you're going to shoot him if he misses. And if he does hit, what then? You follow him to his next objective and it all happens again? Then he misses, and you fire the second shot to teach him a lesson, and give away your position to the target he just missed. Let's assume for a moment that you're not a total idiot, hard as that may be, and ask where in the hell do you come up with this stuff? Are you on drugs? I think you have found your true calling, andy, pestering everybody on this forum, because despite your b.s. about surviving 12 attacks, and with dogs no less, your chances of making it in the real world run about even with your chances that something you say will make sense. I'll stop short of calling you names, because I believe that this forum rates respect for their rules, and if you don't, as much as they would all miss you, like all old soldiers, you should just fade away.
 
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come to durango, CO, any time, bring

a year's pay, and BET me, punk. :) I"ve shot with world champs, many times, and beat most of them, at one time or another. I know what I'm talking about, and you are just fos. Carlos was an HONEST long range shooter. Asked about it in ASG mag, he said:" I made some good shots, but I missed a lot". That's the diff betwen REAL shottists and bsers like you. We know the REAL score, and all you "know" is what you read someplace, or heard from another bser just like yourself.
 
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so, if u beat world champs..........

then that means u were a world champ at some point? easy to prove....what year and where?

can't do it can you? ur such a liar!
 

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I think this was back before "The Spider Hole" came up.
 

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Carlos missed with 40+% of his shots,

so he did really little better than luck with a lot of his longer shots. How do you FIGURE, when he had a nice safe base to be choppered back to, every week or so, air strikes and arty to call in, and all the enemy had was ignorant rice growers, with nothing but AKS? A sniper should never present more of a target (after firing) than a head, bobbing around cover, or a fleeing, dodging torso. Those Gooks had no likelihood at all of hitting such targets at a lousy 200 yds. So Carlos was almost perfectly safe, any time he fired at 300+m. He certainly had access to superb medical care, and after 1 year, could, and would, be flown 8000 miles away, to forget all about it, if he so chose. The survivalist will have no such luxuries. If the .45 had been at his head, for each shot, Carlos would have kept his ranges twice as short, count on that. :) YOu have NO control over the wind suddenly gusting, or lulling, or the target moving, ya know.
Doctrine and training in the 60s bears no resemblance to what is taught today. You know less about this subject than you think, and your paltry knowledge is 50 years out of date. You know nothing about long range shooting, nothing about field craft, and less about what is acceptable for a sniper.

you out yourself as a poser, a pogue with these kinds of posts.
 

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sad.
 
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