[andy]

momentum=recoil, simply mass x speed

momentum goes up proportonately with recoil. ENERGY, however, goes up with the SQUARE of any velocity increase. That's VERY nice, because a 55 gr 223 sp, at 2700 fps, has the same recoil as does a 230 gr .45, at 950 fps (from a carbine) yet, when you shoot, say, ferale dogs with such a 45 ball rd in the carbine, they almost always run off yelpiing, to fall MAYBE within 50m, but often to make it 100m or more. Letting the enemy fire back at you, for 5-10 seconds after you hit him (at pistol type ranges)is an ASININE idea. The 55 gr 223 sp nearly always knocks the dogs off of their feet (given a solid chest hit)and they CAN'T regain their ability to run. So it IS energy transfer that you WANT in your ccw pistol load, but normal ammo offers very little such. That's why I went in search of the extreme pistol performance that I did. The 70 gr 460 Rowland Split Nose prefrag(3 segements) does the SAME thing to the dogs that the 223 sp does. Yet it's JUST as contolable in a lw Commander, as is .45 ACP ball ammo.

 

[bucfan]

That is funny....when we start talking about things you don't know crap about you go back to your bs about the greatness of 223 momentum, mass recoil and the other crap you read off the net or books.

 

[84 C4]

223 has no recoil, therefore, no mass

 

[andy]

u r ignorant 223 sp's work FINE,

only a fool like you WANT'S recoil. all recoil does is slow you down for repeat hits or multiple targets, dummy. I've FORGOTTEN more about these subjects than lames like you will EVER learn.

 

[84 C4]

Re: u r ignorant 223 sp's work FINE,

only a fool like you WANT'S recoil. all recoil does is slow you down for repeat hits or multiple targets, dummy. I've FORGOTTEN more about these subjects than lames like you will EVER learn.

I don't need a repeat hit, I know how to use a rifle.

 

[andy]

u dont have a clue, punk, because u

dont have a timer, have never shot against top men in a realistic combat match. I not only have done so, I've WON, many such. Like I said, you are nothing but mouth. 223 AR's group 6" at 600 yds, win nearly ALL of the 600 yd stages of Service Rifle matches, nearly every weekend. You didn't even know THATmuch about real rifle work.

 

[84 C4]

I'm sure you did win, as you have surely exhibited the discipline necessary to win a target match. I bet your practicing even as we speak.

 

[andy]

I dont waste my time on stupid slowfire

bullseye matches, punk. If you ever DARED try TIMING yourself, with a rifle, on the some of the challenges that I post here, you'd [bleep] yourself. That's why bozos like you HATE the idea of TIMED repeat fire, You are no good at it and it takes WORK to get better,and you'd rather KID yourself that your kidstuff bullseye slowfire amounts to a [bleep]. Like I said, I can teach ANY 12 year old girl to hit man torsos at 500 yds, with a canned , scoped, HBAR, from the bipod, in ONE day, if she's never even HELD a gun before in her life. If you have all DAY in which to fire, why CAN'T she go GET a rifle, brace it on something, hmm? You have no answer, because THERE IS no answer. Either faster is better, which is MY posiiton, or you are fos, which is ALSO my position.

 

[bucfan]

Like I have said before, it is real easy to hit what's not going to shoot back.
Nick

 

[KJUN]

mass x wt. ??

WHAT the heck are you talking about, andy?

Assuming "wt" is your abbreviation for weight, this makes even less sense than normal, 223 fan. Weight is the mass of something times and the local gravitational acceleration on that object (e.g., the mass times the effect of gravity on Earth in our case).

So, momentum = mass-squared times the gravitational force of Earth? Is that correct, gunkid?

Well, when you actually make it up to a junior in High School, you can take beginning physics and learn this.
KJ

 

[andy]

the bs about gravity u can leave out,

punk, we are ALL on earth, and we AINT leaving. ALL of us, and all rounds and all firearms are effected EQUALLY by gravity, so why dont you TRY saying something that has some MEANING, punk?

 

[KJUN]

You are still too ignorant to see your mistake, aren't you. That's funny, in a "you need to be committed" way!

 

[andy]

I made no error. u'd GLEEFULLY point

it out if I had. u r fos, just like ALL my detractors. That's WHY they are my detractors. I point OUT how fos they are, on constant basis, and their fragile little egos can't HANDLE it.

 

[KJUN]

"You're right, Moe. You're always Moe."

 

[Guest]

haha

 

[84 C4]

recoil is easy to figure out, and it's a heck of alot easier than what 223 fan has presented: It's Newton's 2nd and 3rd law of thermodynamics. F=ma[/ma], Recoil equals projectile's F. Class over. In addition, bullets are INCAPABLE of knocking over a dog OR a human for that matter. Bullets cannot knockdown people for the laws stated above, if a bullet can knock down the human target, then the human firer would also be knocked down. Dogs are both quadrupeds and have a lower center of gravity, meaning it would require more force to knock them down. If either hit the ground after being shot, it has nothing to do with the force of the bullet, and more to do with the shock, or surprise, of being shot. We also not affected equally by gravity, gravity's force weakens and strengthens depending where you are on the globe, due to inconsistencies in the Earth's mass.

223 Fan doesn't know jack squat about shooting, if he was half as good at shooting as he says he is, he wouldn't be on the internet bragging about it...and talking about how to get away with killing people (I bet he'd crawl into a corner and cry for mommy if anyone ever broke into his house).

 

[Aslan]

You could muddy up the discussion a bit more and add impulse to the equation, which also figures into recoil (both felt and real)

The projectile does not accelerate instantly to it's terminal velocity.

The buring gases are expanding for some period of time. The length of time it takes for the powders to burn and release the gases actually has an effect on the momentum.

The momentum is changing until the bullet reaches it's final velocity.

Just because two rounds have the same momentum at the time the projectile leaves the barrel, does not mean that the recoil characteristics will be the same

The recoil will seem very different in a weapon that reaches full speed in one micro second, vs. one that takes several.

:devil: