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None at all that I'm aware of.
As long as you had your head on straight you could make about anything work.
Teuf,
As long as you had your head on straight you could make about anything work.
Teuf,
No real evidence that special firearms are required for survival
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Somebody said that its not the gun but the person behind it. I agree. I choose military firearms because of durability, parts availability and aftermarket accessories in standard military calibers. No argument with another person's choices as long as they don't try to cram their ideas down my throat. The gun that I carry does my bidding - not the other way around. And yes, I could make do with a 7x57 BA hunting rifle and a S&W Victory model 38sp revolver.
RIKA
RIKA
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9,964 Posts
I read a posting on Frugel a while back where a gentleman took his kit up on a long weekend trip to the Sierra's to try it out, with his ruck he had a SMLE and a 4" S&W M10. He was far more prepared at our resident bs artist is to survive. Erika, you said it all, plain common sense.
Firearms are a major plus, but not an absolute. Firearms are a fantastic supplement to skill but a mediocre replacement for it.
For instance, in the South Pacific a sling spear (for fishing) and a good bush knife would see far, far more use than any firearm.
As long as I had a decent cutting/chopping tool, I would feel just fine armed with only a 10/22 or a MkII.
There isn't a lot a skilled person couldn't handle with a MkII and a Mauser or an SMLE.
For instance, in the South Pacific a sling spear (for fishing) and a good bush knife would see far, far more use than any firearm.
As long as I had a decent cutting/chopping tool, I would feel just fine armed with only a 10/22 or a MkII.
There isn't a lot a skilled person couldn't handle with a MkII and a Mauser or an SMLE.
Awww, but Teuf, they're special to ME 
Seriously, people have been surviving with far less than we'd consider adequate for a long time. MRostov is probably the closest, if you have a good knife (or three), especially that can also handle chopping duty, you can pretty much make what you need.
Seriously, people have been surviving with far less than we'd consider adequate for a long time. MRostov is probably the closest, if you have a good knife (or three), especially that can also handle chopping duty, you can pretty much make what you need.
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1,118 Posts
Having firearms with appropriate ammo would definitely be an advantage of not having a firearm and ammo, that is plain and simple truth. Trying to make that spear or that snare, or whatever and then learning how to use it would be a lot harder that an uninitiated person taking a 22 bolt action or semi auto or pump or single shot rifle and learning how to use it.
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750 Posts
So JD how would have "special weapons" helped in your case? No doubt you had access to your hack jobs right up to the point you surrendered, they did you no good from my perspective.
Also you have not addresses the issue here, how bought drawing from your extensive knowledge of survival lore for a real life example of a "special" weapon saving the day.
Teuf,
Also you have not addresses the issue here, how bought drawing from your extensive knowledge of survival lore for a real life example of a "special" weapon saving the day.
Teuf,
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750 Posts
This post is far too reality based and has left JD speechless LOL
He can't comment on this issue because there just aren't any cases when some custom, wonder weapon made the difference between survival and death. The real survivors in this world are the ones that get by with what they have by using thier skill and experience. You go some place like the PI or Central America and check out those folks really do live off the land. Funny thing is nowhere do you see $300 custom "survival" knives or M6 "survival" rifles.
Those folks always seem to be doing the most ,with the least. Homemade machetes and single shot weapons or even homemade weapons. When these folks get paramilitary they are using whatever weapons the oposition brought with them, they don't choose the oppropriate tool from thier "survival" battery.
Other than our very own Rev War has there ever been a group of folks that shrugged tyranny with privatly owned firearms? In current examples, such as the Cubans, they had to bring in arms and previous firearms skill was rare among the fighters.
It's ironic to me that in no other time in history has so much good gear been avaliable, but with relativly few folks around that can really take advantage of it. Don't get me wrong I'm as happy as a pig in [email protected] over how good our gear is and take as much advantage of it as I can. I have spent quite a bit of time with "old school" outdoorsman and don't really glorify the "good ole days".
Just a few rambling thoughts about the subject.
He can't comment on this issue because there just aren't any cases when some custom, wonder weapon made the difference between survival and death. The real survivors in this world are the ones that get by with what they have by using thier skill and experience. You go some place like the PI or Central America and check out those folks really do live off the land. Funny thing is nowhere do you see $300 custom "survival" knives or M6 "survival" rifles.
Those folks always seem to be doing the most ,with the least. Homemade machetes and single shot weapons or even homemade weapons. When these folks get paramilitary they are using whatever weapons the oposition brought with them, they don't choose the oppropriate tool from thier "survival" battery.
Other than our very own Rev War has there ever been a group of folks that shrugged tyranny with privatly owned firearms? In current examples, such as the Cubans, they had to bring in arms and previous firearms skill was rare among the fighters.
It's ironic to me that in no other time in history has so much good gear been avaliable, but with relativly few folks around that can really take advantage of it. Don't get me wrong I'm as happy as a pig in [email protected] over how good our gear is and take as much advantage of it as I can. I have spent quite a bit of time with "old school" outdoorsman and don't really glorify the "good ole days".
Just a few rambling thoughts about the subject.
Look at the Afghans. They've been fighting each other for generations, how many suppressors do they use?
The weapon shops across the border in nothern Pakistan can fabricate almost any firearm known, provided that extensive plastic injection or high tech castings are not needed. You don't see a lot of suppressors coming out of those shops.
Your average Afghan man traditionally had a knife, like a locally made khukuri style or another one of that region's styles, and a rifle, also usually locally made. With those simple tools and a bandolier of ammo they lived for generations in some of the harshest, most rugged terrain in the world.
They also don't use .22's let alone .22 subcaliber units.
The weapon shops across the border in nothern Pakistan can fabricate almost any firearm known, provided that extensive plastic injection or high tech castings are not needed. You don't see a lot of suppressors coming out of those shops.
Your average Afghan man traditionally had a knife, like a locally made khukuri style or another one of that region's styles, and a rifle, also usually locally made. With those simple tools and a bandolier of ammo they lived for generations in some of the harshest, most rugged terrain in the world.
They also don't use .22's let alone .22 subcaliber units.
OK guys, tell me if I'm wrong.
I think it would be better to have a cheap ass rifle like an SKS, or 10/22 or even a Mosin Nagant, AND other survival gear (water purification and storage, and least for one person), good knife, ways to catch/prepare food, etc, etc (and the requisite skill to use it), than to have the most sierra hotel rifle out there (pick your favorite) and little to no other gear (or skill).
I think it would be better to have a cheap ass rifle like an SKS, or 10/22 or even a Mosin Nagant, AND other survival gear (water purification and storage, and least for one person), good knife, ways to catch/prepare food, etc, etc (and the requisite skill to use it), than to have the most sierra hotel rifle out there (pick your favorite) and little to no other gear (or skill).
those guys aint, and never HAVE faced what we will face if shtf. They aint starving, they aint got anything LIKE the number of idiots per square mile that we have, nor the firepower or other gear. They have always had NUMBERS, and the fact that the TRIBES went on does NOT mean that they didn't take LOSSES, <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>s. How many kids, or limbs are YOU willing to lose, hmm? dumbasses. It just AINT the same thing, and the fact that you are too inept, cheap and CHICKEN<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> to make or buy a silencer is adquate commentary on what you know about the subject, and what your chances will be. Sure PLENTY have survived, thru pure LUCK. so what?
So WHY do you fools THINK it's EITHER skill or gear, hmm? Because you aint got EITHER ONE? I say you need ALL YOU CAN GET, of both, and only idiots PLAN on doing without EITHER of these critical attributes.
So WHY do you fools THINK it's EITHER skill or gear, hmm? Because you aint got EITHER ONE? I say you need ALL YOU CAN GET, of both, and only idiots PLAN on doing without EITHER of these critical attributes.
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By andy: "So WHY do you ... THINK it's EITHER skill or gear, hmm? Because you aint got EITHER ONE? I say you need ALL YOU CAN GET, of both, and only idiots PLAN on doing without EITHER of these critical attributes."
This is actually a pretty good statement if you could have left off the personal attacks IMO. Of course we need BOTH. You make a bad mistake in assuming that we have neither. Many of us have listed our kits which contain quality equipment and firearms. Why is it that you haven't listed yours, hmmm? Could it be that you have none or just cheap crap you found in the dumpster.
RIKA
This is actually a pretty good statement if you could have left off the personal attacks IMO. Of course we need BOTH. You make a bad mistake in assuming that we have neither. Many of us have listed our kits which contain quality equipment and firearms. Why is it that you haven't listed yours, hmmm? Could it be that you have none or just cheap crap you found in the dumpster.
RIKA
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