nobod's telling me ANYTHING about 45-70
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The .45-70 may be old, but it can still kill you, and it can do it from a long ways away, even with a black powder charge. There's a lot of guys with real experience in the field that are stunningly good shots at surprising distances with a .45-70 and some of their rifles are as precision as the rifles of any Camp Perry shooter.
Here's a pic of some stuff I had laying about my desk.
Left to right:
.50cal roundball, .50cal muzzleloading bullet, .45cal 500gr bullet for .45-70 and .45-110 handloads, 9x18mmMak, .45ACP, 5.56mm, .308, hardened penetrator from a WWII vintage .30-06 military AP round extracted from rock after penetrating 9" (22.8 cm) of a very hard rock outcropping (the tip is still sharp enough to scratch steel).
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Here's a pic of some stuff I had laying about my desk.
Left to right:
.50cal roundball, .50cal muzzleloading bullet, .45cal 500gr bullet for .45-70 and .45-110 handloads, 9x18mmMak, .45ACP, 5.56mm, .308, hardened penetrator from a WWII vintage .30-06 military AP round extracted from rock after penetrating 9" (22.8 cm) of a very hard rock outcropping (the tip is still sharp enough to scratch steel).
Rika, that's just some odds and ends I had laying about my desk that I hastily threw together for a picture. I've got who knows how many calibers laying around here. I wanted to show just how big you can load a .45-70. That lever action Marlin that you have probably isn't rifle for that 500gr bullet though. It's too big for the action and the micro-groove rifling on the Marlin probably isn't the best for cast lead bullets.
One caliber round that I know I no longer have laying around but wish I still did just to show people what a REAL machine gun round is, was the 14.5mm Soviet. It just about made a .50BMG look like the 5.56mm does in that picture when it's up next to that .308 Win.
One caliber round that I know I no longer have laying around but wish I still did just to show people what a REAL machine gun round is, was the 14.5mm Soviet. It just about made a .50BMG look like the 5.56mm does in that picture when it's up next to that .308 Win.
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Hi Mike,
Actually the Marlin 45-70's have cut rifled barrels now so they are fully compatible with cast bullets. Funny you should mention the 14.5mm Soviet. I have both it and the 50bmg in my cartridge collection.
To add, maybe you have a different Soviet MG round than I do. Just took a look at my two side by side and there is only minimal difference. The Soviet is only fractionally larger.
RIKA
Actually the Marlin 45-70's have cut rifled barrels now so they are fully compatible with cast bullets. Funny you should mention the 14.5mm Soviet. I have both it and the 50bmg in my cartridge collection.
To add, maybe you have a different Soviet MG round than I do. Just took a look at my two side by side and there is only minimal difference. The Soviet is only fractionally larger.
RIKA
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I don't think that any cartridge that can do the job can be considered as being "obsolete". Heck, I carry a Taurus in my pocket that is chambered for the old .45 Colt, and I'll bet anyone a nickle that if I put a round into someone's chest, it will put a BIG hurt on them.
So what makes a round "obsolete" anyway? Just because something faster, bigger, or just different has been produced?
So what makes a round "obsolete" anyway? Just because something faster, bigger, or just different has been produced?
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Aha the voice of inexperience speaks again, or is it the voice of ultra rigidity -the voice of someone who feels he has got to be right no matter what anyone else says! Yes we all know that no one can tell you anything, but that is simply because you seem to be to bone-headed to listen. Now I am not trying to be insulting, I am simply stating that I really believe you are rather opinionated to the point that you disregard the validity of statements made by just about anyone who in anyway disagrees with you. The truth is that despite the claim that this round is obsolete and is akin to dung, there is plentiful evidence to the contrary. Is it that everyone else is wrong and you are right. I could believe this if it was one time or if it were maybe two times -but not every time; and besides you are wrong this time. You are wrong about this round being obsolete, about it being akin to dung, and that the round should have been forgotten years ago. You are dead wrong about the effectiveness of this cartridge, and you are dead wrong in your estimation of the intelligence of others. In fact, you have lots to learn from others. The scales are tilted so much toward this being a fun, useful and effective cartridge that there seems to be no weight on the other side, your side, except for hot air. Now don't get me wrong; I am not saying that there are not more modern better choices for many of the applications of this round. I am, however, saying that this is one heck of a good round that has withstood the test of time and has passed testing by tens of thousands of shooters. The 45/70 may be old, but it has come out a winner and it is not obsolete - not by a long shot.
Well, I imagine it would be obsolete if it were no longer useful in modern situations but that is not the case when it comes to target shooting, hunting or just plain old gun collecting. Obsolete means: no longer useful or of a kind or style that is no longer current or is old fashioned (Merriam-Webster online dictionary). Now old fashioned in relation to the word obsolete does not necessarily mean simply old but rather something that is out of fashion today due to its age. The 45/70 is definitely not out of fashion despite its having been around for one heck of a long time. In fact an amazing thing about the 45/70 round is that it has remained fashionable to shoot, and it has proven its usefulness for over 100 years. This is why arms manufacturers keep making new rifles for it, and why so many ammunition manufacturers keep producing the round.
On the other hand a round like the .358 Winchester (note I did not say magnum anywhere) is a much more modern round; yet it may soon become obsolete even though it has been reported to be quite possibly the best all around big game getter round for any North American big game animal. Note that yes I said BEST... ROUND FOR ANY North American big game animal, and this includes the Polar Bear and Brown Bear. It is a wonderful round but its popularity never really took hold. Remember I pointed out that I did not say magnum; and that word or lack of it may have been responsible for this round never making it. It is likely quickly on its way to obsolescence. The last time I checked there was only a single ammunition manufacturer, in regular commercial markets, producing ammo in this caliber and that was Winchester, and it was expensive at about $30 to $40 a box of 20 rounds. The ammo has since dropped in price but it is still oft times hard to find. I sold a Browning BLR in perfect condition that chambered said round. I sold it because of I figured the round would soon become obsolete, and now I kick myself in the butt for having been so foolish. I should have bought a couple hundred rounds and put it all away for my son or future grand-kids. Obsolescence of its ammunition would have been just what was needed to make that rifle even more valuable than for what I sold it, and I made a hefty profit when I sold it. I miss that rifle more than any I have ever sold, it was a beauty. So what if the round may become obsolete, that may quite possibly only wind up increasing the value of the firearm. Some people just don't seem to understand this, like I didn't at the time. They also don't seem to understand that just because something is considered obsolete it does not necessarily make that thing any less effective than something that is modern, or any less fun to shoot, or any less valuable to own.
With regard to the 45/70 it is a good round, not obsolete, and it continues in popularity because there are plenty of shooters out there who realize that this round is a good one for their purposes, be they: Creedmore Matches, Cowboy Action, War Reenactments, Hunting, Target Shooting or just plain old shooting it for the enjoyment of it. There are plenty of rounds that have come and gone in the last hundred or so years, and this is not one that has left us yet. My guess is that if shooting is still legal in another hundred years, then shootists will still be shooting this round and having lots of fun with it.
By the way, if you still insist this is an obsolete round then why on earth would you ever consider and advocate shooting a .22LR round. You have done so many times on this site, and the .22LR is a much less effective round than is the 45/70 for just about anything. A 45/70 is a better game getter, a better man stopper, shoots further with greater accuracy and with more effect. By your own logic on this round, you should also be condemning the 22LR. You see it comes down to personal choices. You have made yours and others have made theirs. Yours and theirs do not have to agree to both be good choices. Hmmmm, can you comprehend that? If you can understand that then there is hope yet that you will become a well liked or respected guy on this site, but so long as you have the need to always put others down - well you have made your own bed and pissed in it too... That is a shame.
Best regards,
Glenn B
Well, I imagine it would be obsolete if it were no longer useful in modern situations but that is not the case when it comes to target shooting, hunting or just plain old gun collecting. Obsolete means: no longer useful or of a kind or style that is no longer current or is old fashioned (Merriam-Webster online dictionary). Now old fashioned in relation to the word obsolete does not necessarily mean simply old but rather something that is out of fashion today due to its age. The 45/70 is definitely not out of fashion despite its having been around for one heck of a long time. In fact an amazing thing about the 45/70 round is that it has remained fashionable to shoot, and it has proven its usefulness for over 100 years. This is why arms manufacturers keep making new rifles for it, and why so many ammunition manufacturers keep producing the round.
On the other hand a round like the .358 Winchester (note I did not say magnum anywhere) is a much more modern round; yet it may soon become obsolete even though it has been reported to be quite possibly the best all around big game getter round for any North American big game animal. Note that yes I said BEST... ROUND FOR ANY North American big game animal, and this includes the Polar Bear and Brown Bear. It is a wonderful round but its popularity never really took hold. Remember I pointed out that I did not say magnum; and that word or lack of it may have been responsible for this round never making it. It is likely quickly on its way to obsolescence. The last time I checked there was only a single ammunition manufacturer, in regular commercial markets, producing ammo in this caliber and that was Winchester, and it was expensive at about $30 to $40 a box of 20 rounds. The ammo has since dropped in price but it is still oft times hard to find. I sold a Browning BLR in perfect condition that chambered said round. I sold it because of I figured the round would soon become obsolete, and now I kick myself in the butt for having been so foolish. I should have bought a couple hundred rounds and put it all away for my son or future grand-kids. Obsolescence of its ammunition would have been just what was needed to make that rifle even more valuable than for what I sold it, and I made a hefty profit when I sold it. I miss that rifle more than any I have ever sold, it was a beauty. So what if the round may become obsolete, that may quite possibly only wind up increasing the value of the firearm. Some people just don't seem to understand this, like I didn't at the time. They also don't seem to understand that just because something is considered obsolete it does not necessarily make that thing any less effective than something that is modern, or any less fun to shoot, or any less valuable to own.
With regard to the 45/70 it is a good round, not obsolete, and it continues in popularity because there are plenty of shooters out there who realize that this round is a good one for their purposes, be they: Creedmore Matches, Cowboy Action, War Reenactments, Hunting, Target Shooting or just plain old shooting it for the enjoyment of it. There are plenty of rounds that have come and gone in the last hundred or so years, and this is not one that has left us yet. My guess is that if shooting is still legal in another hundred years, then shootists will still be shooting this round and having lots of fun with it.
By the way, if you still insist this is an obsolete round then why on earth would you ever consider and advocate shooting a .22LR round. You have done so many times on this site, and the .22LR is a much less effective round than is the 45/70 for just about anything. A 45/70 is a better game getter, a better man stopper, shoots further with greater accuracy and with more effect. By your own logic on this round, you should also be condemning the 22LR. You see it comes down to personal choices. You have made yours and others have made theirs. Yours and theirs do not have to agree to both be good choices. Hmmmm, can you comprehend that? If you can understand that then there is hope yet that you will become a well liked or respected guy on this site, but so long as you have the need to always put others down - well you have made your own bed and pissed in it too... That is a shame.
Best regards,
Glenn B
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1,120 Posts
Note that when I said war reenactments I meant with regard to carrying rifles chambered for that caliber - not actually reenactors shooting at one another - ouch...
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