[andy]

only the carbide wire-core penetrating. There is no way it pierces a car engine block. That's all bs. Regular lead core 308 ball doesn't penetratemuch more than half as much metal, either, if any. that's all pure bs.

 

[GBullet]

Engine blocks are made of cast iron or aluminum, not steel.

Bullets do not have to perforate the complete block to disable the engine. Even a small hole in the oil pan can damage the engine. A clipped fuel line, broken plastic PCV valve, burred valve stem, puntured oil filter, cracked water pump, or broken timing chain can all disable a car, too.

P.S. Typically, the actual engine occupies less than half of the area of the engine compartment, as viewed from the front or side. This means that bullets can often zip through unimpeded.

 

[Rich Z]

Tell you what, you shatter a piston with a bullet, that engine is going to be a mess REAL quick.

 

[andy]

That aint the issue. The issue is 308 BSer's CLAIMING that 308 shoots THRU engine blocks, as in able to harm a guy using such as cover. Hell a 223 can harm an engine REAL easy. All you have to do is shatter the battery, the fuel injector, the head, etc.

Contary to claims made above, I once drove a 6 cylinder Ford van over 3 miles in the AZ desert, on rt 10, with 2 connecting rods blown, the oil light "on", and sparks flying out of the side of the engine. I lifted the cowling inside the van and looked, as I drove. I drove it over 2 miles, with 1 rd blown. It had lost the seal on the oil filter, and everything went to hell. I had half a dozen each tec-9's and Jennings 22's, destined to be canned and traded for coke back in CA, in the van at the time, so I was more than a little upset. It was 1 am, too.

 

[Hard Ball]

" The issue is 308 BSer's CLAIMING that 308 shoots THRU engine blocks, as in able to harm a guy using such as cover."

Post links proving that any member of this forum ever posted that.

 

[ASPHALT COWBOY]

Completely through an engine? I would find that hard to swallow, through the block wall and into a piston, yes. My father killed a Ford 390 with a 30-40 Krag. plenty enough to stop a Fairlane.

 

[Garand]

The stats of Cartridge Cal .30, AP, M2 are incorrect. The AP bullet consists of a gilding metal envelope, the point of which is filled with lead, and a hard steel core. The bullet will penetrate 0.5 inches of homogeneous armour plate or 0.3 inches of hardened plate at 200 yds.

Cartridge Case :200 grains
Propellant: IMR 4895 (53 grains)
Bullet: 167 grains
Velocity: 2770 fps
Overall Length: 3.34 inches

 

[DJetAce]

And what will a 11" POSCAR penitrate? Nada. Especially with SP hunting ammo. Hit a stick in the woods and the bullet will fly apart. Except for unarmored human targets in the open, the POSCAR isn't worth a tinkers-damn.

If you are going to carry any rifle, carry one with some ability to do more than just one narrow thing.

 

[mrostov]

only the carbide wire-core penetrating. There is no way it pierces a car engine block. That's all bs. Regular lead core 308 ball doesn't penetratemuch more than half as much metal, either, if any. that's all pure bs.

My personal experience shooting this ammo says otherwise.

First of all, the .308 is NOT only 1/2 as penetrating as the .30-06. It uses the same size bullets and they travel at only 100fps slower.

A .30-06 AP round will totally f^ck up an engine and it will penetrate at least 1/2 way though a cast iron, American made, V-8 engine block.

The projectile on the far right in the photo is the penetrator from a 1943 vintage .30-06 AP round that penetrated 9" of solid rock.

 

[polesmoker]

" The issue is 308 BSer's CLAIMING that 308 shoots THRU engine blocks, as in able to harm a guy using such as cover."

Post links proving that any member of this forum ever posted that.

A search for "engine block" shows gunkids post in this thread as the only return.

 

[andy]

half thru aint harming the guy using it as cover, and 308 ball has NO penetrator core. u pos's claim all the TIME that 308 offers so MUCH in the way of more USEFUL penetration than does the 223. Well, PLENTY of things stop 308's, a LOT of which you have no IDEA about. So you shoot and shoot and shoot, at what you can't see, run out of ammo, and have to shitcan your clunker 308.

 

[andy]

the above SHOULD read that I drove the Ford Van, straight 6 cylinder TWENTY miles with one rod blown, and no oil left in the engine, not 2 miles. So your bs about 3006 hits being LIKELY to stop an engine is just that bs. Sure, stop it EVENTUALLY, after 30-40 miles of travel. Of WHAT advantage is THAT to a survivalist, hmm?

In 1975, I pulled some 3006 AP bullets, loaded them into 308's, fired in my Match M1A, got wonderful 4" groups at 50 yds, when a hasty "check" with 308 ball got 1.5". The acceptance standards for such ammo in WW2 was 10" at 100yds, since it was mainly to be fired from belt feds, mounted in fighter planes, for use in strafing convoys., Yeay, some of it is 1.5 MOA, but that doesn't mean that the stuff YOU have aint got PLENTY of the crap grade stuff mixed in with it. It was hard to get the carbide wire dead center in the lead core, ya see.

 

[Aslan]

half thru aint harming the guy using it as cover, and 308 ball has NO penetrator core. u pos's claim all the TIME that 308 offers so MUCH in the way of more USEFUL penetration than does the 223. Well, PLENTY of things stop 308's, a LOT of which you have no IDEA about. So you shoot and shoot and shoot, at what you can't see, run out of ammo, and have to shitcan your clunker 308.

Except that you haven't put an effective argument together.

Does the .308 out penetrate the .223? Yes or no?

The fact that there are things that can and do stop a .308 is just meaningless in the context of the argument...just like there are things that can and do stop a .223. So what?

The question still comes down to, does the .308 out penetrate the .223? Whether or not you believe this to be important is also a separate issue. You can dismiss it as not being important, but you throw up all kinds of stuff that: 1) doesn't have anything to do with the argument 2) is wrong, and 3) is fantasy on your part - as you try to claim the choice of caliber somehow forces behavior.

You don't seem to understand what we do and do not know about, so that part of your post is just background noise.

You are the ONLY PERSON claiming that the .308 makes us shoot at what we cannot see. Only you. post links showing otherwise.

:devil:

 

[polesmoker]

In 1975, I pulled some 3006 AP bullets, loaded them into 308's, fired in my Match M1A, got wonderful 4" groups at 50 yds, when a hasty "check" with 308 ball got 1.5". The acceptance standards for such ammo in WW2 was 10" at 100yds, since it was mainly to be fired from belt feds, mounted in fighter planes, for use in strafing convoys., Yeay, some of it is 1.5 MOA, but that doesn't mean that the stuff YOU have aint got PLENTY of the crap grade stuff mixed in with it. It was hard to get the carbide wire dead center in the lead core, ya see.

Guess your reloading skills stink. I have no problem using 30cal M2AP bullets in my 300WM loads, that's a 1/2 MOA gun bub.

Lead core? There is no lead core to be worrying about centering. There is a small amount of lead filler in the front between the jacket and the point of the penetrator and a tiny amount at the base, and that's it. If you've ever taken one apart you'd know that no one who's ever done so would call it a lead core Plus it's not carbide wire, it's a machine turned hardened steel core.

308 and 30-06 use a different AP bullet.
30-06 is 165.7 gr
7.62 is 150.5 gr

 

[ASPHALT COWBOY]

the above SHOULD read that I drove the Ford Van, straight 6 cylinder TWENTY miles with one rod blown, and no oil left in the engine, not 2 miles. So your bs about 3006 hits being LIKELY to stop an engine is just that bs. Sure, stop it EVENTUALLY, after 30-40 miles of travel. Of WHAT advantage is THAT to a survivalist, hmm?

In 1975, I pulled some 3006 AP bullets, loaded them into 308's, fired in my Match M1A, got wonderful 4" groups at 50 yds, when a hasty "check" with 308 ball got 1.5". The acceptance standards for such ammo in WW2 was 10" at 100yds, since it was mainly to be fired from belt feds, mounted in fighter planes, for use in strafing convoys., Yeay, some of it is 1.5 MOA, but that doesn't mean that the stuff YOU have aint got PLENTY of the crap grade stuff mixed in with it. It was hard to get the carbide wire dead center in the lead core, ya see.

Andy, it's a known fact that every rifle has a preffered load, meaning, this case lenght, that powder at x-charge weight and one specific bullet weight. Maybe your rifle simply would not shoot accurately with that bullet.