Since only a few thousand men are in such a position, even WITH a war in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The Pentagon said that even in Nam, 90% of the guys never saw personal combat. Therefore, you most certainly CAN have softpoints in your 223, and such bullets make all the difference in the world.308 ball is illegal to take deer with in EVERY state,for a reason. It aint worth a hoot for keeping the deer in the same county in which you shot it.
odds r 1000 to 1 u AINT infantry in personal combat
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But, then again, can't the .308 guys laod with 'softpoints' also?
There's 6 basic kinds of bullets for the 5.56mm that most people shoot: milspec FMJ (cannelured), civilian FMJ (non-cannelured), ballistic tip, soft point, civilian FMJHP (non-cannelured), and milspec FMJ (cannelured).
The worst for killing is the civilian FMJ followed by the old style softpoint. Milspec M193 ball is way more lethal than either one.
That 64gr Winchester power point was a ballistic tip style bullet. FMJHP's are pretty good but the military FMJHP's, like the Mk262 load, are some of the most lethal there are.
There's 6 basic kinds of bullets for the 5.56mm that most people shoot: milspec FMJ (cannelured), civilian FMJ (non-cannelured), ballistic tip, soft point, civilian FMJHP (non-cannelured), and milspec FMJ (cannelured).
The worst for killing is the civilian FMJ followed by the old style softpoint. Milspec M193 ball is way more lethal than either one.
That 64gr Winchester power point was a ballistic tip style bullet. FMJHP's are pretty good but the military FMJHP's, like the Mk262 load, are some of the most lethal there are.
The problem with someone's comparisons is they depend on too many factors which just aren't going to happen all that often.
1.) The .223 is going to be shot through a glorified pistol barrel, and be overloaded to the point of blowing the primers out, if you even manage to compress the powder charge advocated far enough to seat the bullet.
2.) The preferred sidearm will somehow hold together after being chambered for a dead cartridge, and assuming the aforementioned someone will make his own bullets and load his own ammo, and 'smith the gun. . . .all federal felonies for him to perform, when this same person is too afraid to get a travel waiver to go camping.
MODERATORS: I point this out only to show that the "magical" guns with the "magical" bullets won't be there in real life.
3.) None of his engagements will be outside of 90m, the effective range of his dream bullets, or outside of 45m, the effective range of the much vaunted "GI round".
(NOTE: he won't be using 80-gr. VLDs because he MUST have the ability to spray 'n' pray to make up for lack of ability with a rifle, and 80-gr. VLDs won't feed from the magazine, so he'd be effectively making his fantasy gun a single shot.
4.) .308 users will only be shooting non-fragmenting FMJ loads. Never any of the fragmenting FMJ, FMJHP, ballistic tip, Failsafe, etc.
5.) .45 ACP users will only be shooting FMJ, not any of the premium, highly effective hollowpoints out there. This same assumption is made for all other calibers carried, the users MUST be carrying the LEAST effective ammo for his dreams to have any merit.
1.) The .223 is going to be shot through a glorified pistol barrel, and be overloaded to the point of blowing the primers out, if you even manage to compress the powder charge advocated far enough to seat the bullet.
2.) The preferred sidearm will somehow hold together after being chambered for a dead cartridge, and assuming the aforementioned someone will make his own bullets and load his own ammo, and 'smith the gun. . . .all federal felonies for him to perform, when this same person is too afraid to get a travel waiver to go camping.
MODERATORS: I point this out only to show that the "magical" guns with the "magical" bullets won't be there in real life.
3.) None of his engagements will be outside of 90m, the effective range of his dream bullets, or outside of 45m, the effective range of the much vaunted "GI round".
(NOTE: he won't be using 80-gr. VLDs because he MUST have the ability to spray 'n' pray to make up for lack of ability with a rifle, and 80-gr. VLDs won't feed from the magazine, so he'd be effectively making his fantasy gun a single shot.
4.) .308 users will only be shooting non-fragmenting FMJ loads. Never any of the fragmenting FMJ, FMJHP, ballistic tip, Failsafe, etc.
5.) .45 ACP users will only be shooting FMJ, not any of the premium, highly effective hollowpoints out there. This same assumption is made for all other calibers carried, the users MUST be carrying the LEAST effective ammo for his dreams to have any merit.
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9,840 Posts
Well I have finished my time as an infanteer, so no I never plan on being in that situation again. You keep going back to what happened in Vietnam, GET OVER IT! Life evolves, experiences, situations, technology, knowledge has changed in 35 years. Ask any of the thousands of "base wogs" or "REMF's" returning from Iraq if they aren't combat vets! Start paying attention to the nightly news.
If you choose to use a wildcat round where you can't get a quick replacement of ammo fine, thats your choice. If you choose to reload your service rifle ammo to dangerous levels fine, thats your choice. A large number of use live in different geographical locations and have other needs. If you want to get into an intelligent discussion, post a detailed list of your kit, that you have packed AT THIS MOMENT! Then I'll post mine, with pics if you'd like.
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If you choose to use a wildcat round where you can't get a quick replacement of ammo fine, thats your choice. If you choose to reload your service rifle ammo to dangerous levels fine, thats your choice. A large number of use live in different geographical locations and have other needs. If you want to get into an intelligent discussion, post a detailed list of your kit, that you have packed AT THIS MOMENT! Then I'll post mine, with pics if you'd like.
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1,656 Posts
Holy non-sequitur batman! Nothing in the predicate has anything to do with your "THEREFORE"
It would be equally valid to say" "Water is wet, therefore you certainly can have softpoints..." - the water is wet has just as much to do with having soft points as people that never saw combat.
Your brain is warped in a most peculiar way.
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2,088 Posts
Think we should give him to the other side,
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I seriously doubt they'd want him...
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They could save money on targets.
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1,656 Posts
The damage to the environment might outweigh the benefits.
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