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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
and only autos, only an M4 and .22 unit for a longarm, and only need, for handguns, pocket 9 and .22 unit for same, and once you realize that airsoft and .177 can handle a lot of your practicing, saving you range trips, the money saved means you can afford TOP quality guns and the very best in the way of combat ammo. Once you realize that a silencer makes the 223 so tame to use, and .22 unit and airsoft practice handles 90% of your needs, about the only rifle practice needed is from the strong side shoulder. then you realize that it;s far more important to be highly skilled (meaning mostly FAST to hit) than all the slowfire crap.

I taught a 12 year old girl to reliably hit 1/4 mile torsos, 12"x24", in half a day and she'd never before fired so much as a BB gun. that's how much a silencer, scope, bipod, triggerjob, help the M4, and how good a coach I am. no brag, just fact.

Once you are skilled at precision, braced position stuff, mere .177 lead pellet practice can handle 90% of your practicing. to maintain your skill level. with the very low recoil and almost no blast of the silenced 223 being all that's needed, why bother with the silly stuff that does have more recoil and blast? avoiding all that saves you a ton of wasted time and money
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
in the first place, 90% of US hunters never hunt elk, bison, bear or moose, and in the second place, a good 223 softpoint to the brain drops such critters like a rock. So, you have to WONDER WHY all these wonderful 308 fans, who can "reliably' hit a 12"x24" man at 1/2 mile , but when all they have is a silenced M4 223, they can't hit a 6" brain at 100 yds. Ask any of them if they can field make a bow and arrow and take elk, and the answer is 'of course". Well, they have to get within 25 yds to do that, so why can't they get within 100 yds and brain them with the M4, hmm? 12" marks at 900 yds are the same as 1" marks at 100 yds, so why can't they hit the 6" brain, hmm? men move at long range, ya know. so don't give me this bs about animal's heads moving so much. the fact is, they have trouble hitting the 20" chest of an elk at 400 yds, which explains why they fear that they can't hit the brain at 100yds. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think freud was on to something. those who insist that 9mm and 223 are "sissy rds" have a weak sense of masculinity and are confused about what means anything. All the power in your gun won't mean a thing when a .22lr hits you in the eye socket before you can even fire a shot, and the "big gun" guys do NOT emphasize being super fast at hitting, either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
nobody has to hunt at all in the lower 48 states. you WANT to, that's all. If you really needed the meat, you'd hunt year round, take females and juveniles, use bait, jacklighting, silencer, traps, snares, gill nets, trotlines, fish poison, bird lime on roosts., etc. you dont do those things cause you know you dont really need the meat/fish.
You can borrow/rent a legal elk rifle, if you have an elk permit. you can leave it (mostly) at the pawn shop, not having your money tied up in it, until it's elk season and you draw a permit. you're not going to be skilled with it anyway, it's just going to sit in your closet and the money (an stupidity) tied up in it usually means you won't have an M4, or if you do, you won't be skilled with it.
 

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Some of us have dozens and dozens and dozens, why, because it is fun! And, because we can!
 

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Let’s put a little perspective on this: you don’t have to post on line, yet you do. You don’t have to spread your posts like a monkey flinging poo. But you do these things. why? Because you can, and because you clearly enjoy doing it.

There are caliber restrictions on certain game animals in some states and provinces. You’d know this is you did any research at all.

we own multiple rifles and pistols because we can, and because we enjoy it. We hunt because we choose to. We hunt legally because we are ethical.

and you don’t know anything about archery. Nobody has to get within 25 yards to make a shot on an elk. It happens a lot, but it isn’t a requirement.

you sound like a jealous person that can’t stand the fact that others do all these things.
 

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+1 on the caliber-restriction thing. I've taken deer with .223 (and posted pics), but that's where I live now. Where I lived years ago, the .223 isn't allowed (or smart) for deer-season use.
 
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and only autos, only an M4 and .22 unit for a longarm, and only need, for handguns, pocket 9 and .22 unit for same, and once you realize that airsoft and .177 can handle a lot of your practicing, saving you range trips, the money saved means you can afford TOP quality guns and the very best in the way of combat ammo. Once you realize that a silencer makes the 223 so tame to use, and .22 unit and airsoft practice handles 90% of your needs, about the only rifle practice needed is from the strong side shoulder. then you realize that it;s far more important to be highly skilled (meaning mostly FAST to hit) than all the slowfire crap.

I taught a 12 year old girl to reliably hit 1/4 mile torsos, 12"x24", in half a day and she'd never before fired so much as a BB gun. that's how much a silencer, scope, bipod, triggerjob, help the M4, and how good a coach I am. no brag, just fact.

Once you are skilled at precision, braced position stuff, mere .177 lead pellet practice can handle 90% of your practicing. to maintain your skill level. with the very low recoil and almost no blast of the silenced 223 being all that's needed, why bother with the silly stuff that does have more recoil and blast? avoiding all that saves you a ton of wasted time and money

The .223 is one of the tamest rounds out there, why is this even a consideration - unless you have severe flinching issues or a problem with loud scary noises.
 

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I think freud was on to something. those who insist that 9mm and 223 are "sissy rds" have a weak sense of masculinity and are confused about what means anything. All the power in your gun won't mean a thing when a .22lr hits you in the eye socket before you can even fire a shot, and the "big gun" guys do NOT emphasize being super fast at hitting, either.
This reeks of projection. Plus you aren't going to survive long using a .22lr to ambush people. That's pure Rambo fantasy.

I happen to like both the 9mm and the .223. I just don't like to cripple my .223 with a short barrel or a .22 unit for potential hosilities - as in all things, Your mileage may vary.
 

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…a silencer makes the 223 so tame to use
The .223 is one of the tamest rounds out there
This. We’ve had this conversation repeatedly, John. A silencer makes an AR quieter; much quieter. And making it quieter reduces the concussion when you fire it. But it also INCREASES the gas being blown back into your face with every shot. No way around it; laws of physics dictate that when the gas is constricted in its exit of the barrel, it travels the path of least resistance. On a direct-impingement design like the AR (and which I like) that path of least resistance includes down the gas tube back towards the shooter, and it absolutely increases how much hot, crappy gas gets in your face. If you’re not wearing glasses (which you always should when shooting), it creates a HUGE increase in how much that hot, smelly gas being pneumatically driven back into your face is a problem.

Contrary to what you may think, the suppressed 223/556 is NOT “as tame as a .22 rimfire”, which you love to claim. Forget trying to understand it, just shooting one after the other demonstrates the difference very dramatically. The .223 is pretty tame as rifle calibers go, but it’s much more than a .22LR in regards to the blast and ejecta involved when fired; with a suppressor or without one.


…I taught a 12 year old girl to reliably hit 1/4 mile torsos, 12"x24", in half a day and she'd never before fired so much as a BB gun. that's how much a silencer, scope, bipod, triggerjob, help the M4, and how good a coach I am. no brag, just fact.
Definitely “no brag”. A rifle, on a two-foot target at 440 yards, when using a bipod (which means either prone or a bench), the absolute best muzzle brake in the world (a suppressor), a 7X scope (which is what you always recommend), and an aftermarket or tweaked trigger..? I would HOPE a person – even a beginner - could hit a target that’s almost 300 square inches at 440 yards under those ideal conditions after "half a day" of coaching. Good lord. It's good that you taught her, but that's not a particularly high benchmark for hours of continuous, one-on-one coaching.
 

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9mm "really potent" :) 6" 460 rowland is 165 grs, 1600 fps, 400 ft lbs, 930 ft lbs. 160 momentum factor vs 260 momentum factor, and 50% greater bullet diameter. Any way you slice it, the 9mm is just practice rd, not even much of a load for a POCKET pc, much less a belt gun.
I think freud was on to something. those who insist that 9mm and 223 are "sissy rds" have a weak sense of masculinity and are confused about what means anything. All the power in your gun won't mean a thing when a .22lr hits you in the eye socket before you can even fire a shot, and the "big gun" guys do NOT emphasize being super fast at hitting, either.
So, are you saying you have a weak sense of masculinity?
 

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Back in the day, Melvin did admit that he'd bend over if he had to, just to get by in jail.
 
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