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with pistols, auto rifle user WOUNDED already, without the use of one arm, VERY nearly kicked all 8 pistol user's asses, in Miami. Platt hit 7 of them with his Mini-14, AFTER losing the use of his strong arm.

Post shtf, it's VERY likely to be MANY guys with auto rifles, UNHURT, taking you on. So your pistol will either see VERY little use, or you will be DEAD.
 

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Platt wasted his life and died for no purpose. He was a MORON!
 

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The key word is 'very nearly'. He didn't. He died. And if they had of used decent tactics and body armor they HAD access to, not to mention better weapons they HAD access to, both BGs would have been DRT without much sweat.
 

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The FBI tactics and weaponry were not up to the job. But the MEN were, they took those BG's OUT! Bad fight, but those two bad guy's went down.
 

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I'm not real impressed with the Federal Bureau of Incineration, especially after Waco, but Platt and Matix were just murdering hoodlums and will always be known as such.

Even the secret police behind the Iron Curtain took out a genuine murdering scumbag or two.
 

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mrostov said:
I'm not real impressed with the Federal Bureau of Incineration, especially after Waco, but Platt and Matix were just murdering hoodlums and will always be known as such.

Even the secret police behind the Iron Curtain took out a genuine murdering scumbag or two.
Hey, mrostov, just so we're on the same page here, the FBI OFFICERS IN CHARGE, screwed up Ruby Ridge, not Waco. The ATF did that. Don't tar us all with the same brush.Sure we screw up, doesen't every one? I have served as an NCO in Viet Nam and as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer. Make mistakes's ? I guess so, and I have saved lives, I know I did. Balance it out. When the bad guy's are out there, and you know there out there, you want me coming to call or not?
 

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The ATF started Waco, the FBI was in charge when it became a barbecue.

There are many FBI agents that try and do their jobs, but as an organization the FBI is a political animal, even more so post-911.
 

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Mrostov, wasn't Janet Reno in charge at Waco? Didn't she order the assault? Now I know the AFT and FBI have good people in the orginzation. I feel most of the agents are ok. Any organization has power stuggles, rigedity, myopic views, etc... This includes ANY of the alphabet agencies. The higher up you go in the organization, the more 'yes' men (and women) you get. This is were the most chance of corruption is (and stupidity.)

I've seen FBI raid houses around here and APPOLOGIZED when they hit the wrong house! That speaks well of them. They even fixed the house up they messed up entering.
 

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DJetAce said:
I've seen FBI raid houses around here and APPOLOGIZED when they hit the wrong house! That speaks well of them. They even fixed the house up they messed up entering.
I'm sorry DJA, but this does not impress me. Raid the WRONG HOUSE??? I know people make mistakes, but this should NEVER happen (and it happens FAR too often). When you are invading a citizen's home, you better be [email protected] sure you got the right place.

APPOLOGIZE for endangering the lives of innocent citizens with deadly force ... BFD. EVEN fixed up the house they messed up ... SO generous.

When an innocent citizen's home is invaded wrongly, I don't care if it's a "simple" mistake, everyone involved should loose their jobs ... judges included.
 

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Now I know the AFT and FBI have good people in the orginzation.
The same could be also be said about the Gestapo, the SS, the KGB, the Stasi, etc.

When a government becomes invested with more and more power over what they can do, and the more they look upon themselves as the self righteous protectors of a society, the thinner the line becomes between protection and oppression.

A person in a police state or a concentration camp is one of the most protected and secure people you can find.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. One thing I've noticed amongst 'law enforcement' is the growing self righteous attitude that there can be no wrong in the course of 'doing right'.

It's a human tendency that is as old as time. No one likes to think that they are the 'bad guy' and the extent that they will rationalize and overlook things is really quite titanic. The feeling that they are the 'great and powerful protector' is a sustained high as powerful as any drug.

Yeah, they have families like everyone else, which I hear Feds say about themselves at every opportunity. Himmler and Goebbels were also good family men with many children, men of a legal government who came into ultimate power with the approval of the national legislature on the wings of a 'national emergency'.

As I said, it is a very thin line.

There is a growing gulf between the people and 'law enforcement' as law enforcement attains a growing sense of being a separate social class. This is further reinforced as our anointed 'protectors' are given special perks and privileges above what the regular citizen can obtain, instilling a sense of being 'in charge' of the regular citizen, and just a shade better. To paraphrase 'Animal Farm', "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others." Examples of this are things like a national CCW, including after they retire.

The USA right now is about 80% of the way into being a full blown police state, especially when you look at the laws passed in the last few years and compare them to the freedoms we've lost with the ever more intense regulation we've been subjected to in increments over the last century, let alone in just the last two generations.

There WILL be another 'terrorist' attack and, like the last one, the main party that benefits will be the fans of ultra-powerful government.

Also like the last attack, it will probably be an isolated event in one corner of a very large nation, but this time it will be the pretext to an even greater clamp down on the entire country. Those doing the 'clamping' will, with no doubt, be utterly self assured in the righteousness of their actions and will be full of patriotic fevor. Many of the people will even support it, for a while at least.

Freedom, once relinquished, can usually only be re-obtained by force. Almost NEVER, EVER does an all powerful government give up power like that without great and tumultuous events. The next 10 years will be a very interesting time in this country.
 

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It all started with the militarization of law enforcement ... ninja suits, no-knock entry, SWAT teams in every town, automatic weopons, agencies who typically deal with non-violent offenders getting armed to the teeth just because they can.

The picture of that INS agent with the ninja suit and the MP-5 grabbing Elian Gonzales will forever be etched in my mind. That was a horrifying picture of what our country had become. I was pretty much asleep (or I should say a sheep) when Ruby Ridge and Waco happened, but it says a lot about the state of the American people when they will sit back and watch events like those passively and uncaring.
 

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One thing I've noticed about Ruby Ridge, Waco, et al, is it's not "the FBI" or "the ATF" many, if not most, of the "task forces" were made up of the same people. It's not like the whole origanization is doing this, they seem to have their own little hit squad made up of mostly the same people each time. There's been smaller incidents that got nearly no media coverage, but saem M.O., house burn down/bulldozed/destroyed, and the end of the "incident" ends up looking like nothing more than a mob hit -- people shot up beyond recognition, people being threatened if they don't keep quiet. There will be a reckoning for these people. In the mean time, it sullies the reputation of everyone in the federal agencies. Which, in turn, embitters the guys who are good, and starts them down the path of thinking they are a separate class than the populace because of all the resentment thrown their way. It's a self-perpetuating monster.

I've seen FBI raid houses around here and APPOLOGIZED when they hit the wrong house! That speaks well of them. They even fixed the house up they messed up entering.
Well, yeah, that is nice of them :rolleyes:
I know they stopped no-knock entries around here because of a few FUBARs like this, where the entry team got several members shot and killed entering the wrong house without IDing themselves. So, picking the wrong house isn't just hard on the people who live there, it can be deadly to the entry team.

Oh yeah, and the courts adjudicated them righteous shootings due to the lack of IDing on the part of the LEOs. So, no more no-knock.
 

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"ONE man, with auto rifle,little skill, 8 men with pistols, auto rifle user WOUNDED already, without the use of one arm, VERY nearly kicked all 8 pistol user's asses, in Miami. Platt hit 7 of them with his Mini-14, "Little skill? Get your facts straight. Before Platt was a criminal he was a US Army oddicer and had ranger training and fought in Vietnam.
 
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