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They don't even know what realistic "mastery" of the handgun IS. :) Just like almost nobody HERE knows. Being 1/4 second slower than the BEST are ,inside 6 ft or 1/2 second slower inside 10 ft, is NOT "mastery", it's stupidity, especially for a cop.
 

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so is the carrying of poor ammo, like 230 gr .45's, or 147 gr 9mm's, or .38 snubs or Makarovs. If the damned load won't even reliably stop a 10 lb ****, how CAN you expect it to do CRAP to a 200 lb man, hmm? ****'s don't go ANYWHERE when shot by a .22 HOrnet rifle sp-hp, and they don't go anywhere when shot with a 356 Split Nose either. They CAN'T, because their chest is blown open.

Ditto a big dog, hit with 223 sp or the .460 Split nose, for the same reason.
 

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When all you deliver is a piss-ant 200-300ft lbs (at best) it's like bibbing him on the nose. It MIGHT stop him, and it might not, if it does, it's just a psychological stop, ie, you got LUCKY that the guy wasn't serious about killing you. Any time a guy attacks you without a REAL gun, you were LUCKY, cause he could EASILY have had a hot loaded 38 Super Star, 357, .45, etc. The cops got LOTS of time to shoot at a man who WALKED at them with a knife. That was an attempted "suicide by cop". The cop even had time to clear a malfunction and shoot the guy AGAIN. Sheesh. That means that they had 3-4 entire seconds in which to shoot. A SERIOUS man would have fired 10-15 shots at them in 4 seconds, man.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The main point that I got from the article, and I believe it is both valid and important, is that when it gets to the stage that rounds are outgoing, one should keep firing until the threat is neutralized, and that many standard training practices, which often involve firing a preset number of rounds and then pausing to observe target reaction, may condition us not to do that.

Best,
Jon
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Oh, and by the way - my new .460 Rowland gun in from Clark in January. Can't wait!

Best,
Jon
 

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The one thing that we can all agree on is that gunkid has no concept of how to master a handgun either! WANNABE.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi, Garand. I'm lookin' forward to firing the Rowland. Got a mighty stout compensator on the business end, as you can imagine, so regardless of anything else, I know I'll be well ear-muffed b4 I touch it off. Wish I'd had it in time for deer season; would have loved to have still hunted with it. There's always next year.

Best,
Jon
 

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andy said:
They don't even know what realistic "mastery" of the handgun IS. :) Just like almost nobody HERE knows. Being 1/4 second slower than the BEST are ,inside 6 ft or 1/2 second slower inside 10 ft, is NOT "mastery", it's stupidity, especially for a cop.
Hey NUTTY JOHN, are you hvaing GENDER IDENTITY problems again? Sure sounds like it ...
 

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Big Jon, about 10 years ago, I shot a match with a gentleman that was using a 9x25mm. If the cartridges are alike, wear both ear plugs and ear defenders!
 

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When engaged,borrow a thought from the armor crewmen.I was an infantryman and a scout,but tankers;when pressed on the subject of engaging threats (other tanks)with the main gun will tell you to go for the "catastrophic kill",that is to say you shoot until it explodes,burns or drastically changes shape. In ANY confrontaion involving lethal force,THAT is a good mindset,whether you're talking fists knees&elbows,firearms or something else.Its over when they can't come back after you .
 

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gripper said:
When engaged,borrow a thought from the armor crewmen.I was an infantryman and a scout,but tankers;when pressed on the subject of engaging threats (other tanks)with the main gun will tell you to go for the "catastrophic kill",that is to say you shoot until it explodes,burns or drastically changes shape. In ANY confrontaion involving lethal force,THAT is a good mindset,whether you're talking fists knees&elbows,firearms or something else.Its over when they can't come back after you .

Completely agree. Nothing succeeds like excess.
 

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gripper said:
go for the "catastrophic kill",that is to say you shoot until it explodes,burns or drastically changes shape.
I want to shoot andy until he explodes, burns or drastically changes shape.
 

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gripper said:
When engaged,borrow a thought from the armor crewmen.I was an infantryman and a scout,but tankers;when pressed on the subject of engaging threats (other tanks)with the main gun will tell you to go for the "catastrophic kill",that is to say you shoot until it explodes,burns or drastically changes shape. In ANY confrontaion involving lethal force,THAT is a good mindset,whether you're talking fists knees&elbows,firearms or something else.Its over when they can't come back after you .
I remember reading about a debriefing a hog driver gave after action in Gulf War I. Gun camera footage showed a tank being riddled by rounds from the 30mm cannon. The CO asked him why he classified this as a "possible" kill, and what, exactly did he call a kill?
The pilot said a gun hit or peripheral hit with no secondary explosion was a "possible". A hit with a maverick, Mk 82, etc, with no secondary was a "probable" kill. A hit followed by a secondary explosion was a "kill".
 

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Coyote said:
I want to shoot andy until he explodes, burns or drastically changes shape.
Excellent tactics.
 
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