308 ball, 7.7 Jap ball, 8x57 ball. Just ask anybody who saw some REAL action. They will tell you of guys who took chest hits with such rds, and were not immediately stopped, either. As recently as Somalia, cases of 308 failure to stop were noticed, dumbasses. Ball ammo is uniformly POOR. If you "think" 308 ball is so great, shoot a few deer with it, and NOTICE how far they run. It AINT no death ray, either, and the fatique of lugging it around has caused MANY a death. Guys start just foot slogging along, instead of WATCHING like they should.