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Discussion Starter #1
shot wads. 'the combo shot collar and base wad were NOT known, nor was the pie crimp. The wads would often turn sideways, either letting the powder gases scatter the shot,)(and letting the gases blow thru, resulting in little velocity) or the overshot wad would turn, and scatter the pellets. The barrels and chokes weren't NEARLY as polished and uniform as they are today, too. The 12 ga of that era, and the 10ga black powder load sufficed to take game, and today's 2 3/4" 20 ga is BETTER than those loads were. U dont HAVE to beat yourself up with a 12 ga anymore. Put some lead shot into holes bored into the forend and buttstock of a single shot 20 ga, and it will be JUST as "mild" as a 3" 410is (unmodified).
 

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Who needs lead? Only a weak kneed sissy like you would use a crutch like that with a 20ga.

RIKA
 

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I can't believe this, first he can't shoot a .22 without a compensator, now he needs to add weight to a 20 ga to shoot it?
 

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Get a set of kahounas for a change! Buy a 12 ga and practice, WANNABE
 

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I use my shotgun for home defense, but also have it set-up for three gun competition. While the 20 would probably fill the HD role very well, the 12 just offers more options for aftermarket accessories. BTW -- 18" Mossberg 500, 7+1 rounds, sidesaddle, tac-lite, rail for red dot, sling, and a bandolier with 00 thru birdshot in groupings that lives next to the weapon.
SatCong
 

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Discussion Starter #6
time and $ spent on the shotgun can't be spent on the (far more relevant) rifle and pistol. NOBODY'S "good-enough", with both the rifle (from either shoulder) and the pistol, AND hand to hand. The latter is FAR more likely to be needed than is the pistol, and the pistol's at least 10x more likely to be needed than is the rifle. If you are truly world class with both the rifle and the pistol, you are better with either one than the typical bozo is with pump shotgun, for a fact.

For instance, in low ready, react, raise, hit chest at 25m with a good pistol is .75 second move, or less. NOBODY can say the same about shotgun, in low ready start position. Beyond 25m, if you have a choke-barrel that helps you HIT anything at 10m, buckshot is no good, and beyond 25m, NOBODY is as fast to hit with 12 ga slugs as the top men are with 223 auto's, and yes, that INCLUDES auto shotguns. So there's only a VERY narrow range wherein the AUTO shotgun is a BIT better than pistol or rifle. It's like 10-20M with a typical cylinder choke, and 20-40m with a Vang or some such really tight choke. The pump shotgun is inferior to the CANNED 223 auto at any range, when it comes to getting the hits, faster. The tightly choked shotgun is inferior to the pistol, inside 10m, for speed of hitting, too(on 10" chest circles)
 

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Get a better job, for that matter go out and get one in the first place. My pistol and my rifle, and my shotgun have all been "spruced" up by a top gunsmith. Get your priorities straight and quit whinning gunkid.
 
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