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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
at 5 yds, with a 30 oz 9mm compact, in 4 seconds, is easy, if you are smooth, and a bit of dryfire practice sufficed to make an old hand at such things QUITE smooth. That left 4 seconds for 10 more shots, and 4 target-switches, which is nothing much, given the 12"x14" size of the C zone, and 10" size of the A zone circle. Between life fire and drysnap practice, I'd had at least 1/4million repetitions of the 'moves' of the ccw draw and reload. So no big deal to deliver same in 4 seconds, after years of no practice. It's getting the same thing done in 3 seconds or less that takes a lot of work. Just because you lames don't know-care about what a diff time makes doesn't mean that SOME aren't aware of the facts of the matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
5 yd el pres, instead of 10 yd range, and real loads, in a lw compact ccw gun, real concealment (not bd about a coat that's left unfastened.) and sub 7 second average time, 3 tries, (all hits in C zone, over half in A zone)now that's a good, realistic skills shottist. Far more so than the guy who can turn in the same time at 10 yds, with race gear. Even the guys who can consistently deliver sub 6 seconds(with race gear)and who get all A zone hits, at 10 yds, will have REAL trouble doing the 5 yd thing, in sub 7 secs, with realistic gear.
 

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What are the chances that I'll need a reload after having just put 5 125grn .357 hollow points into the BGs' chest?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
look, dumbass, you are stupid enough to believe that you can't miss. others know better. you r stupid enough to believe that you'll only have one attacker, others know better. The POINT was to show general skill demo. You've never fired under even MATCH pressure, on a timer, or you wouldn't be running your ignorant mouth about such things the way you do.
 

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Andy:

We shot the El Presidente as our classifier at our IPSC match on Sunday. I shot Open Division. For those who don't know, the El Pres is three targets 10 yards down range spaced one yard apart shoulder to shoulder. At the buzzer, turn, draw, fire two on each target, reload and fire two more. This drill didn't grow out of the gamer stuff, it was developed many moons ago by Cooper as a demonstration of basic gunslinger skills.

Anyhow, with the Open stuff I shot a 5.23 second run down three points. That's a score of 90% nationally or Master class. Big whoop. By comparison, when I do the same drill from concealment drawing from IWB, with the reload coming off the point of the hip, I am just delighted with an 8 second run at 10 yards. I think I could do it in 7 at 5 yards, but I don't know for sure. It would be darned tough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
that's right. What gun and load did you use at 10 yds? An alloy Commander, with hot loads in it, is easily twice as hard to control as is a full size and wt 1911 with ball, or 3x as hard to control as the 1911 is with the sort of wussy loads typically used. 165 momentum factor is just 200 grs at 825 fps, often the 1911's weigh nearly 50 ozs, because of all the added wt, comps, etc. A 185 gr jhp, at 1050 fps, in a 28 oz Commander is a pretty wild thing by comparison, for instance.

There aint any .16 second splits or .25 second moves between targets with such a load and gun. .25 second splits and .40 second moves is more like it. Without the mag well funnel and the base pads on the mags, there aint any 1.2 second reload and hits, either. It's more like 2 full seconds. There aint any .60 sec react, draw and hit from ccw with such a gun, either. It's more like 1.20 second. I'm talking about 5 yds for such things, too. For top hands. The guys fighting DAO trigger pulls need wussy 9mm loads, and big heavy guns to even hang in there, much less win. :)
 

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Andy:

I ran out of time before. My personal best time for drawing, shoot COM (about 3 yards), reload, and shoot again is right at 1.8 seconds. If memory serves, it's 1.76 but I am not sure. I don't think I could do the same drill in four seconds with my regular carry gear, but it would be close and I know I could get there with practice.

The effects of recoil on gunhandling magnify with distance and the number of rounds fired. The difference in a 10 yard El Pres. between my CDP Pro (Kimber's answer to a lightweight commander) and my gamer guns is fairly substantial because my grip erodes and the timing gets off causing the barrel to bounce like a tuning fork. Decrease the distance to hoser range and keep the round count low (in my case about five rounds) and the time stays about the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
man, if u can't do it in 4 secs, your carry gear sucks. You got a combination-lock on the rig, or what? A concealed reload and hit is pretty easy to attain in 2.8 seconds at such a range, and so is a 1.2 second react, ccw draw and hit. u got flaps on mag pouches, or what's the problem?
 

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Andy:

I was talking about how I normally dress this time of year, with my coat zipped up. If I started with the coat unzipped, with a short jacket, or a sweatshirt, four seconds would be a piece of cake. Heck, I might be able to beat four seconds anyway, don't know because I never tried it, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
not much point in not practicing the way you actually carry, is there? The coat I wear for winter, I can LEAN severely away from the mag pouch or holster, as take a deep breath, and use thumb to lift the garment out of the way.
 

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"not much point in not practicing the way you actually carry, is there?"

I can't tell you how many times I have thought about that. It's odd, I dry fire every day, live fire about twice a week, shoot a minimum of 30 matches a year, but only practice with carry gear once a month, if that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
once a month should be plenty to get the 4 second draw hit, reload hit thing down at such a close range. That's point shooing, albeit from eye level and with both hands.
 

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"What are the chances that I'll need a reload after having just put 5 125grn .357 hollow points into the BGs' chest?"

About 0.001%.
 

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I always carry spare ammunition and I practice rapid reloading when I go to the range. But If I ever have to reload to shoot anyone I have just shot 5 times in the chest with a .357 magnum it will be a cold day in Hell, Twice I have had to do it against a man swinging a submachine gun at me. In both cases I fired six rounds at the torso. Both men went down instantly and were unable to fire back
 
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