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If you are talking about being a real survivor in any type of shooting situation, then why would you want what Andy referred to as a defensive weapon (or in his other words "a real fighting gun")? I would much prefer my weapon to be offensive rather than purely defensive. I would also prefer not to have to get into a gunfight. Avoiding the gunfight is the way to insure survival. Now if I had to shoot someone, wouldn't it behoove me to be able to do so without that person engaging me in a gun battle? I would think so. Therefor the best gun to have in any kind of a shooting situation would be one with which you can reach out and touch someone because long distance is not the next best thing, it is the best thing! A range of at least 200 to 400 or 500 yards, and one shot kill with the proper equipment would be the most effective solution to keep you alive.

Of course this is practical only in certain situations, but that is the kind of rifle I want to carry not one that shoots like <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> at those longer ranges and then does not have the power to do the job.
 

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GK has never been in combat and has no idea what real fighting gund are like.
 

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Neither do you, old man. :) You dont have a CLUE what fast gunhandling is like. You'd fall down trying.

Hey,<font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>, if a guy is stupid enough to be holding STILL, in daylight and in open country, he's too dumb to be much of a threat. The guy you'd BETTER worry about is going to be using darkness if he has to CROSS open country, and in daylight in such terrain, he'll be hiding under some rock, or in a depression, under his ghillie.

See Bser, the diff between you and me is I KNOW what it's like to be on the run, and to have to haul around 50 lbs of gear. You have no IDEA what it means to have to haul around the 70 lbs of gear an inept like you would need (to last a week). :) Being without a can, being in the open, in daylight, you WILL need more ammo, and you WILL be in more fights, so your odds are VERY poor indeed. Basically because you are stupid.
 

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Gunhandling speed will be a small part of shtf. The ability to reason with an enemy at long distance is a distinct advantage. Moving at night is a fools game that only losers play. You, gunkid, will give the coyotes indigestion before the week is out. You have no friends, no good equipment, no knowledge of value - your fantasy won't keep you alive.

RIKA
 

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Glenn Bartley said:
Therefor the best gun to have in any kind of a shooting situation would be one with which you can reach out and touch someone because long distance is not the next best thing, it is the best thing! A range of at least 200 to 400 or 500 yards, and one shot kill with the proper equipment would be the most effective solution to keep you alive.
Couple that with fairly quick handling if someone DOES get close, and that's why I picked the FAL. Mine are inch-pattern, more along the lines of the DSA carbine models, not the real loooooooong ones.

The M1As would be a close second for me, followed by the tried-and-true, and still effective M1.
 

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Except for gunkid, there are some very good comments here. Gunkid, please post a detailed list of the kit that you have ready to go AT THIS MOMENT!!
If you can't your just proving that you are a WANNABE!
 

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...make haste slowly.....Muscle memory,breath control disciplines...different posotions/conditions...all of these matter.Whatever weapon you choose to shoot(and shoot a lot)should beone of your "grabbitand go already"bits of gear.
Whether or not you actually practice&train,maintain or iprove your general physical condition,and work on having to shoot/fight both when you're well rested&prepperAND right after having run(chased or been chased)for how ever much distance is practical to train in,etc.
Rote repetion(for some things),muscle memorry and general "toughness"are assets.People who think denigrating or insulting others on reflex are @[email protected] who perpetually talk/brag without doing are @sshole de tutti @ssholes.
 

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Cover of darkness

With NVGs available anywhere now, don't rely on moving at night. You'll still be seen, and as long as you can be seen, you can be hit. Goes back to the original post, hit them before they can hit you.
 

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The ropic is REAL FIGHTING GUNS. Notice that GunKid's lame post has nothing to say about the topic.
 

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I know most of the loyal readers will probably disagree, but I like the SKS. Pound for Pound this is about the most reliable rifle, very few parts to lose/break, cheap to buy, cheaper to feed, commonly availble in most metro areas, and with a bit of practice usable ou to 300m under good conditions. I like the simplicity of the design and robustness of all the parts, I do not think one could be shot out very quickly. 7.62X39 is a round that suffers from 2 handicaps,
1. It wasn't invented here,
2. Poor quality control in home countries result in less than match grade shot to shot consistency.
The reality is that a 154sp moves outh the 20"bbl at about the same MV of a 150gr sp in a 20" 30-30WCF, resulting in nearly identical ballistics and the 30-30WCF is the N. American deer rifle of choice in large parts of the US
 

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Yeah,hardball..I know what you mean.I may have strayed off topic myself,but I figure you'll often fight bywhat your training ,experience and wrinkles in the old grey matter steer you towards.If you train extensively with anything from an SKS to an Imbel receivered FAL...well there's YOUR fighting arm.Dittos for handguns,or sharp pointies etc....
I 've always held the belief that having something "obsolete" but training &using it until its a part of you beats the stuffing out of the "flavor of the month'chopped/channeled Star BM/assault wheelbarrow mounted suppressedCAR with ciener"....you get the idea.
 

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Half elf said:
I know most of the loyal readers will probably disagree, but I like the SKS. Pound for Pound this is about the most reliable rifle, very few parts to lose/break, cheap to buy, cheaper to feed, commonly availble in most metro areas, and with a bit of practice usable ou to 300m under good conditions. I like the simplicity of the design and robustness of all the parts, I do not think one could be shot out very quickly. 7.62X39 is a round that suffers from 2 handicaps,
1. It wasn't invented here,
2. Poor quality control in home countries result in less than match grade shot to shot consistency.
The reality is that a 154sp moves outh the 20"bbl at about the same MV of a 150gr sp in a 20" 30-30WCF, resulting in nearly identical ballistics and the 30-30WCF is the N. American deer rifle of choice in large parts of the US
I concur. The Yugoslavian ones available now are brand new for $150.00. These guns are built to last forever. The only thing I wonder about is in the technical manual that comes with them, what does "potpis" mean?
 

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Half elf said:
I know most of the loyal readers will probably disagree, but I like the SKS. Pound for Pound this is about the most reliable rifle, very few parts to lose/break, cheap to buy, cheaper to feed, commonly availble in most metro areas, and with a bit of practice usable ou to 300m under good conditions. I like the simplicity of the design and robustness of all the parts, I do not think one could be shot out very quickly. 7.62X39 is a round that suffers from 2 handicaps,
1. It wasn't invented here,
2. Poor quality control in home countries result in less than match grade shot to shot consistency.
The reality is that a 154sp moves outh the 20"bbl at about the same MV of a 150gr sp in a 20" 30-30WCF, resulting in nearly identical ballistics and the 30-30WCF is the N. American deer rifle of choice in large parts of the US
No, I won't disagree. You're not asking it to do anything it can't do. 300 yards/meters is about all you'll get out of the cartridge, effectiveness-wise. But you're not asking it to be a sniper rifle. The SKSs I've shot have all been quite a bit more accurate than AKs. It shares one pro with the M1 Garand: it's clip loaded. Clips can be loaded indefinitely and loaded quickly, more quickly than changing magazines, especially in the SKS. The stock 10-round magazine is the most reliable. The only reliability issue I've come across is SKSs with non-standard magazines.

If one is strapped for cash, wants a rifle that is tough, reliable, accurate enough, effective enough (within its limitations), and has to be able to take big game as well as fight, the SKS is the rifle.

I also wouldn't worry too much about ammo availability. 7.62x39mm is downright easy to find. At least around here, ever gun shop has SOME in stock all the time, and it is popular enough that there aren't many places that won't have some. lay in a supply and if you're worried about the S Hing the F, then cache some away. You can still get 1000 rounds for about $100 give or take, and such supply doesn't fluctuate with our military being at war or not like .223 and, to a lesser extent, .308 does.
 

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I know the Yugo I had was nothing to write home about in the accuracy dept.,. But the Norinco SKS-D I also owned was a tack driver, for a cheap rifle. And yes I tried various brands of ammo in it.
That said I think any of the combloc semi-auto's are a mixed bag in the accuracy dept as I've also had some AK's that varied widly in accuracy as well.
 

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Fighting guns? Will the Glocks and Kimbers be duking it out with Marquis of Queensbury rules?

Terrain dictates tactics. Having long range capacity is great if you can actually use it. As such, I'd have to say the best "fighting gun" would have to depend on the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
See Bser, the diff between you and me is I KNOW what it's like to be on the run, and to have to haul around 50 lbs of gear.
Hey pal, do you remember me? Is it possible we had some intimate moments you and I as you were in handcuffs. Is it ppossible I was on the arrest team that nabbed you? You don't remember - do you!
 

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Many things about guns CAN'T be fixed, mere putting in lots of time, practicing WRONG, WONT make you better than me. Regardless of how nice a gun is, if it's NOISY, or out of ammo, (ie, no .22 unit)it's apretty stupid choice for shtf) If it and its ammo are too heavy, too unlikely to be replaced, it's a stupid choice. If it's not concealable, it's a stupid choice. Practicing with the gun doesn't FIX its basic shortcomings. Also, you without doubt practice WRONG, and you could practice til hell froze over, and never get as good as I am, because you aint smart enough, nor disciplined enough.
 

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Hmmm,unsuccessful or non-recorded escape attempts....no legal access to firearms anywhere in the country....close quarters/Korean martial arts instruction like nne I ever had from any of my Korean friends(past or present)....reflexive demeaning or insulting behavior....I'VE GOT IT...HE'S A ROLE MODEL...suddnly its all clear to me now.....KING OF THE MALL NINJAs... :laugh01:
 
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