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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I might get rude here, and you might ban me for it, but I want to speak my mind on this whole turdstorm.

First of all, if you remember, way back in the beginning I made a few suggestions.
1.) you could give GK his own forum, with a warning on it that it was a place of offensive behavior.
2.) you could even password it so that people had to ask to be let in, at which time they had no reason to bitch, as it was their own doing.

This would have not curtailed his freedom of speech at all, in fact it was done on another board and his hit count didn't go down, so he was, in fact, able to communicate.

However, this would have meant that:
1.) The people who left would not have.
2.) He would not have been able to SPAM the whole board uncontrollably
3.) There would have been no need for moderators.

I didn't suggest this for you to "infringe on his freedom of speech", I meant it as a help, because I've seen what he's done to EVERY forum he's been on. But you wanted to let it ride and see what happened (translation: to see how bad it would get. Well, you saw it.)

Now, for the not so nice part.
Your comments about the rest of us are completely unfounded, and I do believe you've had some sort of motive to let GK run amok.
Simply stated, you've set up two standards. Examples?

Talk of how easy it would be to start SHTF by poisoning ice cream and giving it to kids. To you, this was OK, because it's freedom of speech, only theoretical because it was about SHTF, so it couldn't be proven, and in no way made this site look bad. (Remember, I asked you SPECIFICALLY about this?)

However, calling him GoonKid was derogatory and had to be deleted because it makes every gun owner look bad across the world, despite the fact that he acts like both a Goon and a Kid.

Talk of killing people for their gear and eating them. This was okey dokey for the same reasons as the above. But someone calls him a retard was derogatory and had to be deleted because it makes every gun owner look bad across the world.

Calling Terry a POS liar, was not derogatory, but calling GK a shower bitch (actually confirmable by records of his incarceration, and the altercations therein), was.

Now, why his were OK, and ours were not, I don't know, nor do I know why what we did even compares, much less was worse in teh eye's of the "anti's".



Now, the rest of us. Yep, we called him names, that's the most we're guilty of. Of course he was contradicted and proven to be wrong, often with links to sources, rather than simple rhetoric that he uses. Tough cookies.
I don't know anyone here who hasn't made a mistake. Difference is, we admit it, and if possible, correct it.
Two examples of yours truly.
1.) I stepped on Garand's dick about PPCLI, by talking out of turn. In turn, I explained no offense was meant and deleted the offending post myself.
2.) The bad info I gave you about using .308 in a 7.62x51mm chamber. I posted a thanks to Hard Rock for the correction, and had Aslan delete my post, since it was more than an hour before I saw Mike's correction.

Others have made mistakes and posted corrections, or apologized for talking out of turn.
In turn, none of the other posters has acted as bad as GK, period, and certainly haven't acted anything like they do with GK towards any of the other posters. This indicates that this is not a normal mode of behavior, and that ONE poster is the problem. Same as he is ON EVERY OTHER BOARD HE'S EVER BEEN ON.

Another example of handling things differently, was Krept calling Terry on his Glock group. I think he did it without being offenseive, just stated he didn't believe it and why, and even posted where he was asking about it and all. How hard is that? But Gk WON'T do that.

If you can't see the difference in his posts and ours, it's because, for whatever reason, you don't want to.
If you can't see the difference in how we post towards him, and how we post towards others, again, it's because you don't want to.

Now, I offered a solution that would allow GK to post (unlike all but 2 other forums on the net, that just banned him), and would have left you with little to no work to do. I don't know if you thought I was trying to run the board, or what, but it was in good faith. Because I, and most others here, have seen THIS VERY THING happen TIME AND AGAIN. I offered this in good faith, because this really had the potential of being GREAT site, with the posters already here, and the knowledge of the others that came, while allowing certain elements their freedom of speech.

Sorry if I just shot a big load in your Grape Nuts, but that's how I saw it go down.
 

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I am calling it as I see it. The number of posts myself and the brief stint of moderators here had to edit or delete from ALL members here, based on such a small total membership is ludicrous. I have one message board with nearly 14,000 members and another with 3,600 members and they are NOWHERE even close as this one to being completely insane with the derogatory postings.

If you found some posts that were not edited or deleted, well la-de-da. Maybe I just got tired of having to read each and every message here to try to clean up the crap you guys let dribble out of your pants legs. The record is still there. Look at the number of edited and deleted posts from everyone, including gunkid. How any of you can look yourselves in the eye in the mirror and think you are BETTER them him is way beyond my comprehension.

Do you really think I have nothing better to do then to play nursemaid here?

The playground remains, I have just resigned from the job.

If you all decide to grow up and show some maturity so that I believe I have at least a fighting chance at keeping the site clean, then maybe things will change. But until that happens, too bad, too sad, I don't really care one way or the other. If gunkid were the ONLY person posting derogatory statements, then no problem, I could handle it. But when I have to edit and delete posts from nearly everyone, WTF do you think you ALL look like?

When YOU all change, then I'll think seriously about making any changes here. Otherwise, sleep on the bed you have made for yourselves, or go on to somewhere else to crap in your nests.

Yeah, no shit, I'm pissed....... See, I even took off the profanity filters. Have fun, kids.
 

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Hmm, I mentioned this a few months ago was told to mind my on business as the guy brought hits which brought everything else. Letting one person rule the forums of the many is not a way to build ant forum. I left for a while. I stil check sites out, yours is still suffering. I do have hope for you tho. Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey dude, I offer a real solution to your problem before it was a problem.

I didn't whine and ask you to delete posts. I didn't ask for moderators, I did suggest it as you didn't want to just make a GK forum, confine him to it and be done with it. It would have been much less work all around, especially for you. But no, you didn't want to do it. I didn't ask you to delete his poisoning kids, cannibalism, shooting cops, shooting peopel to rob them, threads. I asked you if those were ok, but calling him a ratard wasn't you said YES. That's on you, bud, and believe me, anti's like seeing his garbage posted, it's much better ammo than calling names. Hell, they call each otehr names on the Democratic Underground. . .a larger nest of communist anti's you won't find.

You want to use your schoolyard analogy? Ok, I guess you're the "new age teacher" Hmmm? Oh yeah, we got a bully on the playground, but we won't bother doing anything about it, except tell the decent kids that they're as bad as he is if they push back.

Want to use the nursemaid analogy? Fine. You're like the lazy parents who have the one rotten little bastard that does whatever he wants, and they don't bother doing a thing about it (even when given an EASY solution), because "nothing works, he won't stop. But of course if the other kids fight back, oh no, we can't have that.

Same bullshit here. I tried being nice, both to him and to you. Most others here have too, and YOU'VE seen it. Don't say you haven't. We (not just me) have TRIED from the beginning to warn you and offer solutions, but were told to mind our own business, that you'd run your board the way you want. Then you turn around and blame US? I don't think so.
 

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Rich -

I'm not getting into the crap between Magnum & you; it's none of my business, and frankly, I think it's rude to tell your host that he's hosting poorly.

As I've stated before, I appreciate you "hosting the party". I also understand that hosting a party that's top-heavy with power-drinkers is a difficult, ugly, and unappreciated existence, and it's understandable when you decide "something" has to be done about it, whatever that 'something' may be. Whether it's sending some of the party-goers on their way, or sending them ALL on their way and shutting things down, there are times when it's necessary.


That said, even at a party that is "top-heavy with power-drinkers", there are still likely some who are just mingling quietly, shaking their head, with a cup of coffee in their hand. I really do understand your frustration, but when you say:


Rich Z said:
...The number of posts myself and the brief stint of moderators here had to edit or delete from ALL members here...

...Look at the number of edited and deleted posts from everyone, including gunkid...

...How any of you can look yourselves in the eye in the mirror...

...If you all decide to grow up and show some maturity...

...WTF do you think you ALL look like?...

...When YOU all change...,

it's just not true. AFAIK, neither you nor any mod here has had to edit, modify, or delete any post I've ever made here. If that's incorrect, please remind me. And I'd be willing to bet that there are others as well, albeit possibly not many.


Rich Z said:
Yeah, no shit, I'm pissed.......
I understand that you're pissed, and I understand why you're pissed. But personal behivior is only attributable to (or controllable by) the individual, so I can only control [and can only be accountable for] MY behavior. And frankly, sir, you're telling lies about me in public.
 

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Magnum88C said:
Then you turn around and blame US? I don't think so.
Just out of curiosity, how many posts do YOU personally have here that were edited or deleted for derogatory comments?

This site has a very capable mechanism in it whereby ANY member here can put another member on an IGNORE LIST. What this means is that any post by the ignored member won't even be seen by you. I have made this point before, several times.

It is very easy to assume that anyone who has not availed themselves of this feature simply WANTS to read those posts and then feels compelled to answer them. That's fine, but don't whine to me about it. And don't whine to me about your posts being edited or deleted as well when you post in a derogatory manner. Past tense, of course.

Oh and as for your suggestion, I made the offer to everyone to have their own personal forums, IF THEY WANT IT. If someone does not want it, I certainly am not going to force them into it. As for a private forum with a password? Why should I do that? If someone wants their own private forum with passwords and such, they can just create their own forum. They don't need to be here, and I don't need to have them here. Quite simple, really. This is a PUBLIC forum. If someone doesn't want to be in public, then that is very easy to fix.

Some people even played Nostradamus predicting that Gunkid would be the downfall of this site. Then they, in multiple false logon names, attempted to FORCE their prediction to come true with their own actions. That's not prediction, that is stating an intention. Kind of like predicting a building will burn down overnight, then being the one to light the match to it.

My personal belief is that there are a few people that are purposely chasing John Davis all over the internet with the intention of getting him banned from every public forum that they can. The fact that I have not played their game with them really does incense them no end. So they have proceeded to further antagonize him with their own derogatory statements and then point at him as being the problem. Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Because I REALLY do not care about yours, nor anyone else's, personal issues. I judged people solely by how they act on my site. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyway, I purposely used soft deletes and the capability for messages to log any editing done by myself or the moderators. This is for audit purposes in case anyone in the future wanted to see what was done here and why. Anyone here can read through this entire site and read those messages that were soft deleted, and at least see a reason why something was edited. It is all there. Go ahead and take a look to see how many messages posted by persons other then Andy/223fan (aka Gunkid) were deleted and edited, then tell me with a straight face that he was the sole cause of all the problems.

Later...... I have more important things to do.
 

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Rich Z:

You mentioned another board with 14,000 well behaved members. It the forum shooting related? If so, which forum? I'd like to take a look and yes I'll behave.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OK Rich, last post on this.

Honestly, I tried to help by giving suggestions I've seen work in place of banning.
I've also seen boards where people "ignored" GOONKID. It doesn't work. I guess his motivation in all of this just doesn't sink in. Fine.

I don't know who here posts under several names besides GOONKID, but you know damn well that I don't.

Yep, I had posts deleted. Even admitted to them being derogatory. What I don't get is how talk of killing people (despite YOUR constant warnings to stop), murdering kids, poisoning food supplies, ambushing people all kinds of instructions on illegal activities is "freedom of speech and not a problem", but calling him a retard for it will bring down the wrath of the antis. Sorry, that just dosn't compute. (John in AR, if that means I'm calling him a bad host, well, that wasn't the intention, but if that's how it's seen. . .)

So, no, it isn't our fault. Sorry, it just isn't. If how we treat everyone EXCEPT GOONKID vs the way GOONKID treats everyone, doesn't display a difference for you well. . .whatever.

:beer:
 

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I don't see Rich as doing anything wrong. Davis, is alway's going to be Davis until he get's locked up again. It's like offensive books or movies. If you don't like their content, don't read or view them. Probably 90% of davis's posts are just to incite a reaction. Just like a spoiled child not getting enough attention. If you could see his psychological work up, you would know what I'm talking about. Look at his remarks. He hates and fears dogs, can't stand loud noises, has no outside interests other than the keyboard, has no friends, and has been under Federal supervision for almost half of his adult life. You don't have to be a Psycholgy major to figure him out. Let him talk. Who care's?
 

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Raider said:
I took a look. Faunaclassifieds appears to be of interest to people of a totally different mindset than here. Apples and oranges.

RIKA
And the mindset here is what? Beat the crap out of someone who has different thoughts or opinions then yourself?

Freedom is a double edged sword. The cutting part is where you come to realize that the other guy has the freedom to have thoughts, words, deeds, and actions, that you may not particularly like.

Magnum99C said:
What I don't get is how talk of killing people (despite YOUR constant warnings to stop), murdering kids, poisoning food supplies, ambushing people all kinds of instructions on illegal activities is "freedom of speech and not a problem", but calling him a retard for it will bring down the wrath of the antis. Sorry, that just dosn't compute.
Maybe it should "compute" with you. In a forum discussion about such things as SHTF and related topics, such discussions are certainly fair game. Actually, as far as I can recall my ONLY restriction on free speech here has been that members were not allowed to be derogatory towards each other. That is because I felt responsible for this area where you are all coming together to talk together. Common courtesy between people with differing ideas and opinions should not be that difficult to achieve, don't you think? But evidently it was, and by a large margin.

It is not my job to determine what someone discusses may or may not be something that the actual execution of would be illegal. Even if it is illegal, it is still not my job to block someone from discussing something along that nature. As far as I know, the knowledge of how to do something illegal is not in itself illegal. At least not yet.

If such activity is discussed by someone, all someone has to comment about it is along the lines of "Hey, that's illegal! You really shouldn't do that". Not "You are a flaming asshole for thinking or talking about such things." Or better yet, just ignore it completely.

But calling someone else derogatory names on my site, is definitely something that is under my jurisdiction here, but really unnecessary or rarely enforced if discussions are taking place between fully mature adults conversing in a public forum. And since this is my site, the choices about what I can have as the rules, whether or not I enforce them, and how I enforce them, is entirely my decision to make.

Magnum99C said:
So, no, it isn't our fault. Sorry, it just isn't. If how we treat everyone EXCEPT GOONKID vs the way GOONKID treats everyone, doesn't display a difference for you well. . .whatever.
It most certainly IS your (collectively) fault. Not a single one of you HAD to react in like kind as someone else. No one. If only a single person is acting in a derogatory manner, then enforcement of the rule against it becomes simple. Excise the problem. But when everyone is engaging in it, then either I have to accept the fact that everyone believes that engaging in such manner of talk is perfectly acceptable, or I just bump out everyone who acts such way. I will not knowingly engage in selective enforcement of a rule.

So one I saw things getting out of hand, to the point where I would have to edit or delete sometimes DOZENS of messages a day, I just said to hell with it. And again, I emphasize the fact that YES IT WAS YOUR FAULT, AS WELL AS EVERY DAMNED ONE OF YOU WHO ACTED IN A DEROGATORY MANNER TOWARDS SOMEONE ON THIS SITE.

I am very sorry if you fail, either purposely or from lack of comprehension, to understand this distinction.

Anyway, what is done is done. I have stated my case, and my personal solution to it. You all can either take it or leave it. I now consider this horse to be FULLY dead.
 

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Ankeny said:
I looked too. Wow, 700 users today and it's only 4:00 PM. I wonder if they need a profanity filter. Probably not.
I most certainly do need that filter in place. You need to be a member to view it, but my Board of Inquiry Forum over there gets quite testy at times. It can be downright brutal at times, but derogatory statements are much more the exception rather then the rule there. With the number of members there, I expect some of that and can deal with it. To have MUCH more of that crap here with less then 3 percent of the membership body is completely ludicrous.

So what is that telling you all about the types of people who frequent this site compared to my FaunaClassifieds site? And I specifically set up THIS one to give me a break from that one, to have some fun discussing a topic I am immensely interested in, and just to relax with some people with like interests. Hah! What a joke that idea was!
 

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I'll pop in here when I'm not out in the sandbox playing with the kids.

I'll see if I can try to pry some Raufoss loose from the Ordies for our 50cal addict here, but they keep that stuff locked up as tight as anything here stateside, I could get a 249 out easier than those little pills.
 

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Yeah, I see Raufoss every once in a while for sale, but it's damned pricey when you CAN find it! I bought some, just to have it, but I choke up at even the thought of actually shooting any of it. Everyone says you should shoot it at dusk or darker to get the full effect of impact.
 

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We have it, I just don't know exactlly why we have it.
Maybe I can find someone who signed off on the paperwork requesting it and that paperwork will have justification for the purchases attached.

If we can't stop it with the M82s or the 50 Robars it's not going to be stopped by our [authorized]firepower.

I'm thinking that maybe I can get one of the Ordies to sign it out on a "used for stock evaluation" basis. Everything else woulf involve far too much paperwork and flatout lying on my part so that's out.
 

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Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a local LEO a while back offer to get me a black Steyr AUG when LEO's could buy them direct for $1795. Or was it even less? Anyway, I told him, thanks, but no thanks, because he could have lost his job over something like that. I don't want ANYTHING that bad.
 

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Thanks for telling it like it IS, Rich. It's always been that way, everywhere. The punks CAN'T just put me on "ignore", or just skip my posts. They dont know jack, and they are learning from me, and then they TRY TO make points with their (contrary) commentary, but they dont KNOW enough to do so, and it shows all over the place.
 
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