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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
capability. Inside 5 yds or so, the pistol is faster, and beyond about 20 yds, the rifle is both faster and superior in many ways. From 5 t20 yds, the SOUND suppressed 223 autocarbine is at LEAST eqal to the shotgun for speed of hitting, and it offers penetration of body armor, and careful headshots around hostages.

Time and money spent on the shotgun can't be spent on the far more likely to be present handgun, or the far more versatile rifle. The tubular fed magazine, especially a pump, is a nightmare to keep in action under common combat conditions, like darkness, rain, cold, injured hands, being prone, etc. Very few are worth a hoot from either shoulder, even with an auto, much less from the pump, and proper use of cover, or the ready position requires you to be good from either shoulder.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
riot barrel wont reliably put ONE pellet

of 00 buck on a cover user's head, beyond 20 yds. If you use a choke that's tight enough to do so at 30 yds, or keep half of the pattern on the 10" chest circle at 40 yds, it's so tight that you might as well be using a rifle at 10 yds and less.j (ie, 3" wide pattern or less). So the shotgun is just a crutch for those who won't practice adequately with rifle and pistol.

Buckshot won't even pierce a windshield or the tread of a radical tire beyond a very few yards, much less car body metal, at even a little bit of an angle.

Once you have to go to slugs, the shotgun makes a VERY inferior "rifle". the trigger pulls suck, and the buckshot patterns almost never center with the slug groups. Rifle type sights slow down the ability of the shotgunner to hit small, fleeting targets (like cover user's heads) and bead sights aint worth a damn on such heads, beyond 20 yds or so, either. So you have to sight in the rifle type sights with slugs, and "hold off" for when you want to center a buckshot pattern.

Basically, the only way to have slugs-buck as an adequate option is to have an 8 rd mag autoloader, stagger load them, and always fire 2 shots at everyone. :) That is, unless you have cover, and know that everyone is at too great a distance for buck, and have the chance to load up with slugs. Big PITA, all for nothing, basically.

Combat stress is notorious for warping judgement, especially of ranges, (and number of rds fired-remaining) so you are very likely to be using buck at too great a range, or go to slugs at too close a range, or run the mag dry when you "think" you still have 3-4 rds left.

1-2 shotguns sure didn't amount to a crap in Miami, even against a ONE ARMED man, who knew enough to have a 223 autorifle. If he'd also known enough to be using ear protection, even concealed armor, and ear protection, and hadn't been hit by a FLUKE pistol rd, from 35 rds, he'd have callled all 8 Feds that day, instead of merely wounding 5 and killing 2.
 

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All that might mean something, if it came from someone who has actually seen combat - but they wouldn't make such stupid comments.

DC
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
bs, plenty of fools like you

have eaten dirt, sprayed and prayed, and will always be know-nothings.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
the only bs here comes from clowns

like you, and any halfway serious gunman knows it. The rest don't matter, cause they are like you. Hopeless.
 
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