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Discussion Starter #1
Slow Bullet Stopping Power?

I was doing some research recently and came across an interesting British theory on stoping power which was widely believed in England from the 1870s through World War Two.
The Brits believed that a slow bullet (600 to 700 FPS) had more stoping power than a faster bullet of the same diameter particularly if the slower bullet was heavier. As an example, the standard military load for their .455 caliber revolver was a 260 grain lead bullet at a muzzle velocity of 610 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 213 foot pounds. The felt that the slower bullet took longer to pass through the body and transferred more momentum,
It sounds odd to me. but the Brits seemed to believe it. They stuck with revolvers firing slow heavy bullets until 1957 when the adopted the 9mm Browning Highpower whose bullets were niether slow or heavy.
 

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The 38-200 bullet comes to mind (38 S&W cartridge). It didn't work too well either. Should have adopted the 45acp.

RIKA
 

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General Patton liked the theory, look at his Colt SAA in .45 Long Colt! Shot Placement comes to mind. It is my understanding that he was very successful during his encounters.
 

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There are several different factors that contribute to a bullet wound. Among these factors are the density of the shootee's tissue, the shape of the bullet, and the bullet's kinetic energy. At different bullet velocities, some of these factors will be much more important than the rest.

Consider that a large percentage of combatants struck by a single 9mm FMJ, .45 FMJ, .223 FMJ, or 7.62x39mm FMJ survive if they receive prompt medical attention.

Now, consider that very few pedestrians struck by a car travelling 66 ft/s (45 mph) survive.

Finally, consider that almost no one person hit in their unprotected head by a well swung baseball bat ever survives.

The British did not create this "slow, heavy bullet" theory while standing in the sun too long, it has merit.
 

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HB,

I watched the History Channel about British revolvers this week. They had some very intersting facts.

During the 1850s the Brits allowed their officers to purchase Colt Navy .36 revolvers and the a precussion revolver made by Adams in something like .45. During the Crimean war they found the .36 was NOT a very good stopper at all yet the Adams did well. And thus when they went to a cartridge revolver the first one was made by Adams to. Later they went to the renouned .455 Webely.

Now the .380 Enfield. That was at first a .38 S&W loaded with a 200 grain bullet that would tumble (600 fps load.) Now that is so slow plus the fact the bullet tumbled I doubt if would penetrate much in the way of webbing and still go far enough to drop someone. During WW2, obeying the Hauge Convention, they went to a 180gr FMJ which did not tumble and thus was not much more than a .380 ACP like the Italians used! I doubt many Brit's really thought to use their .380 Enfield revolver in shootouts. I heard in the Middle East and Pacific that most of them tried to get .455s if they could. Don't blame them, I would!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sounds like a very interesting program. They rerun their gun programs frequently so I will look for it.
 

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I remember when I was a young infanteer, I bought a S&W M33 Regulation Police in .38 S&W. One Friday afternoon the Company Sgt Major and myself were out doing our "sports afternoon" on the pistol range. I watched a buddy shoot my .38 S&W and actually saw the bullets go down range. A week later I sold it and bought a Beretta M1934 in .380!
 

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no it doesn't. Both the brits and you were/are fos. I personally saw a guy get hit TWICE in the head with an aluminum ball bat. The chopper took 45 minutes to arrive, he was fine a few months later. Muscle is about the only tissue that CAN be denser, and there's very little muscle on or in the chest.
 

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andy said:
a car at 45 mph has many HUNDREDS of thousands of ft lbs of energy, dummy.
And this is from the same wannabe commando that 'thinks' he can overload 5.56mm to make it deliver more energy and overload 460 Rowand and other cartridges. He talks all the time about energy and how powerful his wetdream loads are, but then what does he post? He now runs down energys importance.

This all shows a compete lack of reallity in terminal balistics.
 

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andy said:
a car at 45 mph has many HUNDREDS of thousands of ft lbs of energy, dummy.
But that's not how a vehicle/pedestrian accident usually works. Most of the time the car strikes the pedestrian at knee level, knocking their feet out from under them.

Here's the important part...

The lethal part is when the unfortunate pedestrian's head is then struck by the vehicle's windshield. Very, very little kinetic energy is nessessary to cause the horrible head injury. The same is true of a baseball bat head injury.
 
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