[andy]

a .22 rd(post shtf) Deer,cattle, sheep, horses,hog, dogs, beavers, geese, THEY have enough meat to be worth a .22 rd, but many such critters are not that hard to snare, or to hit with a slingbow, or take withi a bola,either. Depending upon how desperate you are for flesh food, how skilled you are, how skittish the critters are, the terrain, etc, of course.

Another consideration is REMOVAL of animals that are taking YOUR game and birds. Skunks, cats, snakes, bluejays, crows, possums eat eggs, preflight birds. Cats. hawks, owls, weasel family are primary predators. ***** take your mussels,minnows, tadpoles and frogs. So when u get a chance to shoot such critters (quietly) that might well be worth a .22 rd to you, too. Even if you DON'T want their flesh.

 

[RIKA]

Learning to use traps and snares effectively is a critical skill to have during emergency conditions and great sport during other times. I caught a small number of muskrat and **** last winter, could have trapped more but didn't want to leave the traps unattended.

RIKA

 

[andy]

steel traps r too likely to not be available

(in sufficient quantity, anyway) You need LOTS of traps and snare set. box traps, jerk-up snares prevent other animals from eating your catch, too. Trouble is, green limbs LOSE their "springiness" in mere HOURS of being bent over. I've seen some lose it in MINUTES, too. riggiing a WT to act as the "lifting" mechanism is a pita to arrange in most cases. Woven wire fence is nearly everywhere, is easily overlapped to make a smaller mesh size, and can make gill nets, box traps for small game, bird, fish, and turtle traps, with little effort. You can "untwist" barbed wire, or take the insulation off of electical or phone wire, and use same to tie together the woven wire. Taking animals alive, especially fish, means you can KEEP them awhile, so as not to either have their flesh spoil, or require salt and/or sun/drying to preserve it.

 

[Teufelhund]

Really any hunting post SHTF is going to be risky

Much better to have your own chow put back, after the first few months things may settle down enough to do some serious animal husbandry and small scale farming. Folks will be putting together small "communities" again and that will provide the sort of security to produce food in scale.

You can't run a trap line in the dark you will make too many mistakes and no game will get close to them. If you are in an area with any population to speak of, the woods are going to be pretty crowded with folks all trying to find something to eat. Most everyone will be afoot so folks are going to be pretty concentrated without much range of travel.

Indians moved around alot for that reason, the land gets pretty beat up when everyone is trying to live off it. The indians that did the best for themselves used horses so they could carry thier surplus chow and good shelters.

Much better to just hang low and maintain a solid defensive posture IMO. Why get shot over a rabbit? When bulk food is cheap and plentiful right now. The tactical advantage is always with the defender.

Teuf,

 

[glogan]

Knowledge of eddible plants and even insects and grubbsand worms comes in handy also. Usually easy meal with minimal effort.

 

[Teufelhund]

No doubt about that glogan

Knowledge of eddible plants and even insects and grubbsand worms comes in handy also. Usually easy meal with minimal effort.

It's also a a great way spend time outdoors right now, when we are backpacking or camping a large part of our time is spent studying field guides and learning the natural flora and fauna. We always plan trips into the mountains in the spring just to check out the wild flower bloom.

Teuf,

 

[andy]

edible plants r JUST as dangerous to

be seeking out. Stashing food at a retreat area is a good idea, but almost nobody will bother, and a LOT of people will NEVER MAKE it to the given area, others will have their caches FOUND, they will get RUN OFF from that area, etc. Best figure on GETTING grain, from granary, barn, etc, and silently popping a cow, jerking the meat, so that you CAN get some source of long term food. The edible plants, etc will be GONE, just as fast as will the fish and game, basically. There'll be 100x as many people foraging on them as the land can sustain.

 

[Teufelhund]

What will be left to forage will be a function of your area

In high density population areas it's going to get pretty damm grim.

Those folks aren't going to be travling very far, very fast though and the less populated states will likely stay that way IMO. Travel in such conditions would be extremily dificult for the prepared and is going to be impossiable for the average.

I personally think that the lack of moterized tranportation is going to keep folks pretty static. The game will reteat from those area's of high hunting preasure and move deep into the back country. Travling 15 miles to find a deer and getting it home is going to be a huge task without a vehicle. Traditionaly under such circumstances folks garden thier yards and raise small live stock and spend alot of time hungry.

The number of folks that can really thrive in the backcountry is relativly small compared to the number of folks jammed up in cities. Those folks in the large cities are more likely than not either going to live off gov aid or die, if they don't have some chow put back and the good sence to stay well hidden. Even then it's going to be dicey. Some will try to get out and even if they do, how far will they get, think they are going to survive long as refugee's?

The mountain west is a rugged and big place and probually the best place to be SHTF.

Teuf

 

[glogan]

Most people also forget that if you are going to survive you must keep your body healthy, not let yourself run down. Things we take for granted now like going to a Doctor to clear up infections may not be an option.

 

[andy]

doesn't take much colloidal silver

to stave off most infections, and AVOIDANCE is always the key factor. along with acupressure, etc.

There's MILLIONS of motorcycles, skidoos, jetskis, etc, offering LONG range potential over really bad terrain. When you get 80 mph on pavement, and 30 mph off road, the gas you can find in wrecke autos, tractors, lawnmowers, weed choppers, combines, etc, will take you MANY hundreds of miles. So those who THINK that they live in "remote" areas are fos. they will see MANY scores of at least POTENTIAL attackes. The small town people and most farmers and ranchers are JUST as unable to provide for themselves as are the ghetto residents. You AINT one tank of gas for a motorcycle away from the nearest town, much less such a bike, with 4 5 gallon jerry cans of gas mounted on it. 2 behind a tall buddy rest, 2 in the "saddlebag" position.

 

[Teufelhund]

Thats true JD in the short term

But traveling it's self is whats going to be dangerous and travel where? If those folks don't have good local maps they might as well be traveling at night or blindfolded.

Folks aren't going to be travling many hundreds of miles with the fuel siphoned from weed-wackers and lawnmowers LOL.

Something to consider is those that do manage to get clear are going to be pretty damm short of everything by the time they get out. They will be in no logistical shape at all to be messing with well fortified and supplied defenders. Who will have had much experience with thier sort by the time they get there.

Then those refugees will get a good class concerning winter on the high plains. By the time winter rolls around you better have some good gear, shelter and plenty of chow put back. The indians didn't call them "the months the children cry in hunger" for nothing. A 50bls pack isn't going to carry you though winter.

In the summer you may need to carry 50lbs of water to get you to the next water source. That is if you know where to go ,which without good maps you won't.

These "looting" refugees will have to criss cross the high plains to find remote ranches and hope they see them before they are seen by sentries in high places with binos and spotting scopes. If they stay on roads they will be easily spotted and they won't have to worry about finding them. Traveling at night they could easily miss them. Since these places where established in a date and time wadering bands of indians where trying to wipe them out, the ranch house is often rather hidden and defendable, epecially with a little work with a backhoe.

Trying to cover hundreds of square miles looking for ranches to loot is going to get a little tire some. When they find these places they are apt to find them accupied by some folks pretty damm motivated to keep them.

Every scrape with one of these places is going to be extremely dangerous and a rather tough way to make a living.

My advice would be, if you managed to get clear and find such a place, see if you couldn't work out a deal for room, board and chow. You would live alot longer and happier if things got real tight.

Teuf,