Some fact over fiction
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First, I hate unregistered people who post! If you've got an opinion, fine - Just put a name on it like the rest of us do. (This way we, all, know whom we're arguing with.) Second, Yes, the 38 Long Colt is the cartridge that was used by American forces in the 1899 Philippine insurrection. IIRC, it replaced the 38 S&W which, apparently, was an American military cartridge.
Third, IMO, Evan Marshall takes himself much too seriously. I don't place a lot of store in most of what he has to say. His viewpoints, too often, come across to me as being rather priggish.
Fourth, Somewhere in the, 'this or that caliber blows 'em away' theories room should be made for the sheer PAIN of being hit with a bullet. Years ago I was shot across the ankle with a 22 caliber bullet - ouch! The impact knocked me off my feet. I very much doubt that it was expansion, energy transfer, cross-sectional density, or bullet weight that knocked me down. Instead, it was the impact and the pain! Years later I was shot across the right side of my head. (Yes, I know - this explains a lot!) I didn't go down; but I did stagger backwards and fall to one knee.
Finally, There does seem to be a, 'magic corridor' about 2" on either side of the backbone, and running from the base of the neck down to the groin. Put a decent bullet in here; and you've, pretty much, got your man. As I type this I'm troubled by a recent reading of the 1986 Miami shootout. It certainly appears that the combatant's ATTITUDE has a lot to do with the physical and emotional ability to absorb terrific carnal punishment. I guess, with the wisdom of old age, I have to conclude that ALL pistol calibers KILL; however, it's only the occasional WELL-PLACED shot that, ever, STOPS. I'm not sure, 'What' the answer is; but, I can say this; 'I will always remember Peter Hathaway Capstick's accounts about his use of a 12 gauge shotgun and double 00 buckshot to stop wounded charging lions DEAD in their tracks with head shots he made at inside 15'. Wow!!! I'd have to say that Capstick DEFINITELY put this technique to the, 'acid test'.
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This brings up something that has puzzled me for quite a long time. The whole concept of bullet "energy". Expressed in foot pounds, right? Well what exactly does that mean?
I have always thought it meant the equivalent energy spread over a square foot of surface area. The fact that this energy is concentrated over the frontal surface area of the bullet is what gives it penetration, as most soft materials will give way to that energy and allow the projectile to push it aside.
So let's say we have a projectile that delivers 300 ft/lbs of energy upon impact. In a case where the total energy is transferred to the target, that implies to me that the effect would be as if a 300 pound weight had been applied to one square foot of the target area. Does this sound right? But I am sure that many of you have fired rounds at logs and other materials that the round did not penetrate, and in most cases, the log never even quivers, much less gets knocked over. But if I applied 300 pounds to the side of that object, most certainly it would be pushed over.
So yeah, this has puzzled me, but since everyone uses that designation as an indication of bullet energy, then most certainly my understanding of what "foot pounds" really means must be faulty.
Anyone willing to 'splain this to me?
I have always thought it meant the equivalent energy spread over a square foot of surface area. The fact that this energy is concentrated over the frontal surface area of the bullet is what gives it penetration, as most soft materials will give way to that energy and allow the projectile to push it aside.
So let's say we have a projectile that delivers 300 ft/lbs of energy upon impact. In a case where the total energy is transferred to the target, that implies to me that the effect would be as if a 300 pound weight had been applied to one square foot of the target area. Does this sound right? But I am sure that many of you have fired rounds at logs and other materials that the round did not penetrate, and in most cases, the log never even quivers, much less gets knocked over. But if I applied 300 pounds to the side of that object, most certainly it would be pushed over.
So yeah, this has puzzled me, but since everyone uses that designation as an indication of bullet energy, then most certainly my understanding of what "foot pounds" really means must be faulty.
Anyone willing to 'splain this to me?
G
Guest
·.45 ACP wan't used against the Moros
.45 l Colt was, and it failed miserably. Even 30-40 Krag ball rds failed to stop some of the "juramentados". The 357 is a joke when it comes to repeat hit speed, in a ccw capable gun. Those who "think" that high velocity and energy are not where it's at are simply ignorant, that's all. Get a hollowbased, solid tin .45hollowpoint, 70 grs, at 2300 fps, in a 4" barreled 460 Rowland, using 13 grs of Bullseye, and it recoils like .45 ball. Slit its nose back to the (deepened in a lathe) grease groove, and at impact, you get 3 big frags. The rear, 40 gr segment is a full wadcutter, nose heavy shape, which penetrates 10-12" of flesh. The front segments are 15 grs each, and create their own separate wound channels, 6-8" deep, as proven on ANIMAL flesh and blood, not bs jello tests. This load pierces level II body armor like it's not even there, too.
.45 l Colt was, and it failed miserably. Even 30-40 Krag ball rds failed to stop some of the "juramentados". The 357 is a joke when it comes to repeat hit speed, in a ccw capable gun. Those who "think" that high velocity and energy are not where it's at are simply ignorant, that's all. Get a hollowbased, solid tin .45hollowpoint, 70 grs, at 2300 fps, in a 4" barreled 460 Rowland, using 13 grs of Bullseye, and it recoils like .45 ball. Slit its nose back to the (deepened in a lathe) grease groove, and at impact, you get 3 big frags. The rear, 40 gr segment is a full wadcutter, nose heavy shape, which penetrates 10-12" of flesh. The front segments are 15 grs each, and create their own separate wound channels, 6-8" deep, as proven on ANIMAL flesh and blood, not bs jello tests. This load pierces level II body armor like it's not even there, too.
G
Guest
·momentum or energy wise, there's no
diff between having a bullet enter your body, and remain there, and having the bullet stopped by body armor. Rich Davis, president of Second Chance, has many times shot himself with various pistol calibers, while wearing his company's vest. It creates a bruize, and there's a visible impact, but he's always able to accurately return fire. True of .44 magnum hits, too.
The DWELL time of the impact has a lot to do with whether or not any movmement is imparted to the target. You can exert a minor amount of energy, building it slowly, and move a safe door. You can shoot that door, with a load having a lot more energy than your push has, and the door won't twitch, because the energy is dissipated (mostly as heat) as the bulllet shatters on the safe door.
diff between having a bullet enter your body, and remain there, and having the bullet stopped by body armor. Rich Davis, president of Second Chance, has many times shot himself with various pistol calibers, while wearing his company's vest. It creates a bruize, and there's a visible impact, but he's always able to accurately return fire. True of .44 magnum hits, too.
The DWELL time of the impact has a lot to do with whether or not any movmement is imparted to the target. You can exert a minor amount of energy, building it slowly, and move a safe door. You can shoot that door, with a load having a lot more energy than your push has, and the door won't twitch, because the energy is dissipated (mostly as heat) as the bulllet shatters on the safe door.
usd hbwc's TUMBLE in flight, way too
often. They are pathetically inaccurate, and at 1200 fps, lead the bore so badly that they dangerously increase pressures. That's what they will do. Unlike todays current crop of lazy cheapskates, guys of 30 years ago would take the trouble to LOAD some, and check them out, on paper targets, in water troughs, and on animals.
The .38 special has been WELL proven to be an anemic pos, for over 100 year now. 250 ft lbs, whooper crap. I can KICK you harder than that.
often. They are pathetically inaccurate, and at 1200 fps, lead the bore so badly that they dangerously increase pressures. That's what they will do. Unlike todays current crop of lazy cheapskates, guys of 30 years ago would take the trouble to LOAD some, and check them out, on paper targets, in water troughs, and on animals.
The .38 special has been WELL proven to be an anemic pos, for over 100 year now. 250 ft lbs, whooper crap. I can KICK you harder than that.
while a really toughminded man can
make himself a lot more "bullet resistant", it's quite provable that as the tissue destruction and shock of a load increases, the odds of it sufficing increase right along with it, until you get to 98 percentile or so, at which point even 308 sp's and 12 ga slugs are proven to fail to stop men, too, with just chest hits.
make himself a lot more "bullet resistant", it's quite provable that as the tissue destruction and shock of a load increases, the odds of it sufficing increase right along with it, until you get to 98 percentile or so, at which point even 308 sp's and 12 ga slugs are proven to fail to stop men, too, with just chest hits.
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