a LAUGH out of the reloading manuals. EVERY load, in handgun rds, that Speer CCI started offering as loaded ammo, was cut back by 10% or more, as SUDDENLY being "too hot'. They simply didn't want to show loads that outperformed the ammo they were SELLING. Loading manual "max" loads are a JOKE, man. Yeah, they MIGHT be max, in a HOT gun, on a HOT day, in the WORST pos clunker EVER chambered in that caliber. However, for a decent gun, under typical firing conditions, the "max" load is just a starting point. Ask any benchrester about it. They start with max and go UP in powder charge, often a LOT.