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Discussion Starter #1
not with ball ammo in each. Match M1A is $1500, rangefinder scope, at LEAST $500 more (used) MATCH HBAR upper costs a LOT less than Match M1A. Under realistic field conditions, you have no HOPE of outreaching even a standard AR, using match ammo, trigger job and scope, with Match M1A, match 308 ammo, and iron sights. The match HBAR groups 3" at 300 yds, still has 1050 ft lbs left out there, when using the 90 gr VLD, too. So just BRAIN the deer, that's all. :) As flat as that load shoots, from a 24" barrel, you can ZERO the scope at 300 yds, and not worry about shooting too high, at 200 yds. :)
 

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andy said:
not with ball ammo in each. Match M1A is $1500, rangefinder scope, at LEAST $500 more (used) MATCH HBAR upper costs a LOT less than Match M1A. Under realistic field conditions, you have no HOPE of outreaching even a standard AR, using match ammo, trigger job and scope, with Match M1A, match 308 ammo, and iron sights. The match HBAR groups 3" at 300 yds, still has 1050 ft lbs left out there, when using the 90 gr VLD, too. So just BRAIN the deer, that's all. :) As flat as that load shoots, from a 24" barrel, you can ZERO the scope at 300 yds, and not worry about shooting too high, at 200 yds. :)
If there is such a thing as a 90 grain VLD .223 bullet(which I doubt a loaded round will not feed from an M16 action and will probably require a faster twist barrel.

Converting a fighting rifle to single shot is not a good idea,
 

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Discussion Starter #3
the 90 gr vld still has 2350 fps left at 300 yds. Only loses 450 fps in 300 yds of travel. That's amazin. Some of the lighter 223 sps lose that much velocity in 100 yds.
 

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The 7.62 hits harder at any range a 5.56 will shoot. A 7.62 will carry such as incinerary something a 5.56 won't. A 7.62 will buck wind better than a 5.56. The 7.62 does not need a specialty handload (single shot) that the 5.56 needs to even approach the ability the 7.62 has.

If all you need is to punch holes in paper, the 5.56 is good enough, but if you need to reach out and really HIT an opponent at long range, the 7.62 wins hands down. Only a wannabe would say otherwise. Nuf said.
 

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I love it.
The HBAR wins in price vs the match M1A -- IF you compare a new M1A with a USED upper -- Apples and grapes.

HBAR beats out the match M1A -- but only if the AR is scoped and the M1A is shooting irons -- Apples and stones

.223 maintains energy better than .308 --IF you compare a (nonexistant bullet weight) VLD in the .223 to flat based FMJ in .308. -- apples and motor oil.

So, in short, if you have a 24" HBAR .223 that is scoped, can only fire one shot at a time due to magic ammunition, you can beat a match M1A using military flat-based FMJ over irons. . .

Which still has nothing to do with his 10" POS versus ANY other rifle/caliber.
 

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I have shot Service Rifle competition out to 500 meters with both the 5.56mm & the 7.62mm NATO. At 500 meters, I would not be confident that the 5.56mm retains enough energy to damage to a hostile target. The 7.62mm NATO will, its a proven fact.
 

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I thought You carried/prayed over a 10" car woth a can. Most any rifle with a heavy barrel, and a scope will outshoot a regular barrel with iron sights. Match grade magic beans, I mean magic bullets will out shoot real world FMJ almost every time, and a 24" bbl will have a more stable sight radius than a 20" tube, but I do not think that the items compared are close enough to be a legit comparison.
Ps whatis a VLD, and why does it help.
 

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andy said:
The match HBAR groups 3" at 300 yds, still has 1050 ft lbs left out there, when using the 90 gr VLD, too. So just BRAIN the deer, that's all. :) As flat as that load shoots, from a 24" barrel, you can ZERO the scope at 300 yds, and not worry about shooting too high, at 200 yds. :)
Ninety grain .223's need a twist similar to your average wood screw.

At least their slow velocity and looping trajectory will let you watch the sunlight glint off of them. :)
 

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There you have it. Everyone here except gunkid sees the logic. Gunkid just sees the fantacy.
 
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