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Discussion Starter #1
do you NO good when Big Brother sends his jbt's for you, and that scenario is MANY times more likely than your succeeding in firing 30 rds, missing with nearly all of them, much less the 300 rds per fight that so MANY THINK that they will be "needing" if shtf. If you HIT with even 10% of 50 rds, you will survive anything that is at ALL likely of being survived, when the attackers have auto rifles, and are TRULY ruthless, desperate, etc, and they WILL be, if shtf.
 

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WANNABE
 

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Discussion Starter #3
neither do such stockpiles do u ANY

good if you can't ACCESS them(due to fallout, being a long distance away when shtf, diseases, etc) which is quite likely to be the case, or if a fire, quake, flood, etc destroys them. Nor is such crap ANY help when you get attacked by gangbangers, TONIGHT in the street. So it's all a big waste of time and money. The individual SKILL AT ARMS, hand to hand, and a FEW, lw, compact, QUIET guns make far more sense than does stockpiles of ANYTHING, really. Skill is PORTABLE, and TRADABLE for other stuff, which the fools who CAN'T fight worth a crap have stockpiled,or to defend yourself from the predators who KILLED such stockpilers, and now HAVE all that stuff. :)
 

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Oh golly, your stockpile MIGHT get over-run, so it's just no use....

BTW, with no transportation, no way to measure emissions, and no food, you're in a fine position to be talking about surviving fallout.

The surest protection from big brother is to either maintain a LOW profile or to leave. Being a wandering vagabond can also be a pretty dangerous thing in a police state or a nuke/bio attack.

One of your best bets if you stay in the US, especially is there is a small group is to nomadically squat some land deep in the forest, or get a small farm and maybe pretend to be eco-freak peacenik greenie hippies.

Either way, the bulk of your 'stockpile' should be in at least couple of caches. Even if the location gets raided and you have to flee, they won't stay there for ever, though they'll probably ransack the place.

One of the better ways to escape both big brother and a nuclear/biological bombardment, is to just split the country.

Those in Europe that fared best in WWII weren't the guys in the hills or the wandering vagabonds, they were the people with their baggage packed, and a steamer ticket to someplace else, like Argentina.

The best of both worlds is to get a boat. Going gets bad, either take it up to the BC coast or head for the warm, blue waters of the South Pacific.

Freedom of the world; access to unlimited fresh food; nice comfy bunk and a warm wood fueled heater vs shivering in a hole, living like an animal; etc. You don't mind expending a bit of elbow grease, you can get a decent one that may need some paint and a few repairs for $20K or less.
 

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And you could get picked off as you walk into a drug store, today, which would negate your plans of wandering come shtf.

you make up examples like the gang-bangers that have nothing to do with caches or supplies in general.

Mike is right, if you want to talk about fallout, you're already dead - on foot, no map, no compass, no way to determine where to go to minimize any exposure to fall out.

Fire, earthquake, etc are valid things to be concerned about, but proper planning lets you take those things into consideration.

:devil:
 

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Mike

I don't know anything about boats or ocean travel. I assume you can't just sail into the port of a foreign country though ... can you?
 

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Re: Mike

Mike in NC said:
I don't know anything about boats or ocean travel. I assume you can't just sail into the port of a foreign country though ... can you?
Yes you can. You simply sail into a port of entry and clear customs. Often there's a time limit to your stay, from 2 weeks to 6 months or more, depending. That can often be extended.

The rules vary from country to country. Often you can get a cruising permit to travel up and down the coast, stopping wherever you want.

The Bahamas, for instance, used to charge only $100 for a 1 year combo cruising permit and sport fishing license. They have recently upped it to $500.

New Zealand even allows you to apply for permanent residence status while on a tourist visa, provided you meet the requirements. If you're just staying for a while, every so often you do there like you do in a lot of places where you are hanging out for a while, you just take the boat on a periodic cruise out of their territorial waters and then re-enter to keep from paying import duties.

Some places, like Spain, will charge you a whopping import tax on your boat if you stay too long.

Many Pacific islands are still so remote, isolated and locally backwards you can often get away with just pulling in and anchoring.

Canada, specifically British Columbia, is probably the best place to hang out for an American, especially in a serious crisis or in an emergency. In a crisis, just sail north and pull into a isolated bay or fjord. Tons of deer, fish, etc. Canada is cool in that they don't raise any bitch about you bringing guns and ammo along, so long as you comply with their regs. There's also always SE Alaska too.

Some countries are decently corrupt and you can get away with a lot if you grease a palm or two, like Belize.

Usually, the Whiter the country, the more polite and civilized they are. For instance, Argentina is 97% Caucasian (3% Indian, mostly in the extreme north of the country). During their economic meltdown a few years ago they had rough times, but they didn't descend into barbarism like other places would have.

Myself, right now I'm busy with business in the Southwest. As soon as I get freed up, the boat route is what I'm going to do. In 'normal' times it's an extremely cool way to live. I'm actually not that far from the coast, and my family owns a marina in S. Cal. Lots of people in AZ own blue water boats and they usually keep them in San Diego, LA, or down in Rocky Point (Puerto Peñasco, Mexico). There are some lakes here the size of small inland seas, so there are even a lot of sailboats and house boats on them.

Depending upon connections, how hard you look, timing, economy, etc, you can often score a cool boat for surprisingly little, especially if you don't mind putting some work into it.
 

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Here's what a boat under $20,000 can look like. Not exactly a tiny rowboat.
 

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So, why has the theme from Gilligan's Island suddenly stuck in my head?

"...a three hour tour...the weather started getting rough..."

Evil, evil, evil!

:devil:
 

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Awesome but I'd have to marry a mechanic to keep the thing going.

RIKA
 
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And stupekid, being a ex-con on parole, has no ACCESS to his. Yet I have PLENTY of access to mine, any day, any time.
 

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oh man!

I' m laughing to hard , need to get away! you all crack me up.

thanks.
 

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Yes, must have the parrot. They go well with the cutlass, the beard, and the bandana.

:D :D

Raider said:
Awesome but I'd have to marry a mechanic to keep the thing going.

RIKA
Hmmm, know how to operate a paint brush? :D
 

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Thanks Mike

That's interesting to know, but the ocean and boating is so totally alien to me. Don't know if I could ever do that.
 

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It's not for everyone, for sure, though there are a surprising number of people doing it.

People who are liveaboards and are full time cruisers have a unique lifestyle and it has developed something of a subculture.

It's like the biker world. There are those who live it full time, some who take a Harley out on the weekend, and those who just occasionally watch a rerun of Easy Rider.

I've been around boats and ships all of my life. Odd to some, seeing as how I currently live in Arizona. But there is a surprising number of extremely large lakes here with sailboats on them to keep one's feet wet. AZ isn't that far from the ocean and I tend to spend a lot of time in California.

There are some people that make fun of the idea or dismiss it as nonsense, but lots of people really do this. This isn't just my crazy, wildass, off the wall idea.

Myself, I'm kind of a nomad by nature, grew up that way actually, and can't quite tune into the thought patterns of living in one place, in one neighborhood, for the rest of a person's life.

Like those people that live in endless suburban housing tracts. To me, that is hell. I guess some people like these urban warrens, like in New Jersey or New York, it makes them feel snug and safe - an illusion that they cannot live without.

Look at it this way. A boat is like a house, except that you have the world's biggest back yard. Also unlike a house, you can move it from place to place.

A house can be in investment, yes, until the bubble bursts on the housing market, you still have 15 years of payments to make, and you get laid off from work.

You can buy a used boat that needs work, fix it up, and sell it for a profit. That is how many people get into the bigger boats without jobs as stock brokers. They move up the ladder, so to speak.

Most of your time is spend in bays, inlets, harbors, etc, anchored or moored, but you can change both your neighbors and your zip code at will, taking your apartment and the cat with you.

To me, a well done boat is at least as comfortable, if not more so, than your average apartment that so many pay through the nose every month for, and you can certainly get one for less than a house.

Also unlike a house and a piece of land, you can actually totally own a boat and you can legally set up the registration so you do not have to pay rent (property tax) on it all of the time.

Your house and your land you never own full (allodial) title to. You have to pay rent (property tax) to the government on a regular basis or they will evict you, with armed force by the Sheriff if need be, and sell it to someone else who will pay the King's rent, just like a Medieval peasant.

Also, unlike a house, if something happens (terrorist attack, riot, chemical accident, power plant meltdown, etc), you can simply untie the lines and make for better places, taking your home with you. Riots? They end at the pier.

F^ck the spartan bug out bag. I'm bringing the fridge, the beer, the shower, and a bed with clean sheets.

On a boat, by nature you're pretty much as self-sufficient on a normal, day to day, basis as a better equipped survival retreat. You have your own water supply, extended food supply, fishing gear, a rifle, large fuel supply, wind powered propulsion, etc.

Not bad for less money than many spend on a brand new 4x4 pickup truck.
 

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The idea of living on a boat has a real fascination for me. I just doubt that I could handle it alone. Boat life makes me think of Travis McGee (John D. MacDonalds's famous character). He lived on a house boat.

RIKA
 

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Actually, some of the more famous modern long distance solo sailboat racers, such as Ellen MacArthur, are women.

Being solo takes a lot of the fun out of it, IMHO. It also ads exponentially to the danger. Being alone when underway out on the ocean turns ordinary stuff into a constant risk. A lot of guys that are solo will take on extra crew for longer passages. Many extra crew on smaller yachts are volunteers for free, like oceanic hitchhikers.

My advice if someone is young, single, and interested in trying out cruising on a sailboat, simply get your passport in order, pack a small duffle with the necessities, and offer to crew with some people on their yacht. It's done all of the time.

It's also a good way to get to see Hawaii, Tahiti, New Zealand, the Caribbean, the Azores, and other cool places on the cheap.

Basically you crew for free, you work, do watches, learn to sail and navigate, read books, write, have interesting conversations, etc. In return you get a free trip, the experience, skills, and they feed you en route.

You eventually get good enough so that if like it and you want to get your own boat, you can with confidence. It can also lead to paying jobs with yacht delivery crews, professionally crewed big yachts, etc.

There are definitely worse things a person could do with their time.
 

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What interests me is how do you set up the registration so you don't have to pay property tax on it?
 
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