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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some, OK, ONE person here, espouses 'backpack survival' as the end all be all come some apocalypse.

There is an often posted essay by Duncan Long which pretty much derides the entire concept.

Can 'backpack survival' be done? I think it can, if done properly. It has been done before by different people under various circumstances.

You'd best have some skill and experience in the boonies, especially in the terrain you'll be in. You also have to be in a good location. Most people will still be in the urban areas, dead or alive.

Your best bet on actually making it would be to get to an isolated place that has a natural food supply, set up a small, not so easily spotted camp, and do it as the Indians and Mountain Men did it with a few military and Boy Scout field methods tossed nto the mix.

This means that you're going to need a few more tools than you'd normally bring while backpacking, your gear has to be simple and durable, and you'd better practice this stuff and dial your gear in ahead of time.

For most people, the best bet for getting deep into the boonies would be to toss their gear and a bicycle into a vehicle and drive down logging and forestry roads as far as they can get with the vehicle. Also, you can rig a bicycle VC style to carry almost as much gear as a horse. The VC would pack as much as 200 pounds on a cargo bike. The bike can be de-rigged in the field for regular used.

Another thing to take into account is that there are very few places left that you can go in N. America where there hasn't been someone there before and they've often left something behind, from tin cans to bulldozers. The amount of material and resources to be gleaned from such activity can be considerable.

Also, there will be game in the better places, though in some areas, like near small towns, it will be hunted out. To assume that the entire population will be spread across the land and then consume all of the game in the land is a poorly applied mis-use of math and contradicts both human nature and recorded history.

Well, here's a spartan minimum list for light fast bugout travel. This list looks long but actually doesn't weight that much. A lot of this gear is very small and weighs almost nothing. It's really just a spartanized backpacker's kit with a few extra tools and a bit of extra basic supplies. This list is assuming one is already dressed.

This is not exactly my own personal list, but is a basic, generic list though many of my own preferrences are reflected in it. Myself, backpack survival is a last ditch resort. I'm also not traveling alone. Traveling alone by choice is dumb (or sociopathic).

If anyone has anything to add, feel free.

* pack (good used packs can be had cheap at swap meets or surplus stores)
* sleeping bag (synthetic, the thicker the better)
* close cell foam sleeping mat (protects the bag and insulated you from the ground)
* poncho (never used as a ground tarp if you want it to still keep the rain out)
* poncho liner (for warmer weather, cold mornings, and catching naps on the run)

* ready to eat traveling/bug out food (the weight of this food doesn't matter too much as it will be steadily consumed in the initial bugout while moving fast)
* bag of salt (bring a lot, like a couple of pounds or more)
* bag of food (10-15lbs dried lentils will get you by for a while)
* dehydrated onion
* bullion cubes
* tea (100 tea bags minimum, keeps you alert plus it makes boiled/idodine water taste better)
* tobasco sauce and curry powder (can make almost anything edible)
* canteen/water bottle(s) (empty plastic soda/water bottles work well)
* cup or can to cook & boil water in
* snare wire
* basic fishing gear (line/hooks)
* water filter & iodine tabs
* vitamin supplements
* plant ID cards
* seeds - non-heirloom, easy to plant and grow Indian style crops (beans, squash, corn, melons) These seeds can be planted with improvised tools like a sharpened stick, and easily harvested by hand.

* firetool (Walmart $5)
* disposable butane lighters (have a hard time working at higher altitudes) and/or a Zippo and a bottle of extra lighter fluid
* multi-tool (quality needle nose pliers type - Gerber/Leatherman/SOG/Victorinox, etc)
* sheath knife - quality
* hatchet/axe (quality: Gransfor's, Norlund, Snow & Nealley, Marbles, ect)
* saw (Stanley saw handle with various 'sawzall' blades for wood, metal, and bone)
* diamond hone (EZ-Lap 1"x3" with a leather pouch - Walmart $6)
* 2 files (mill/bastard type and a Nicholson '4 in Hand')
* vice-grips (quality make with the wire cutters)
* awl
* paramedic style scissors
* lock picks

(A couple of small drill bits mounted with epoxy in cut sections of wooden dowel comes in handy, especially for tubing and woodwork)

If you plan on 'digging in', bring a USGI Nam era folding shovel or a Glock shovel. It will be worth the extra weight. The Nam era USGI shovel (copied directly off of the WWII era German paratrooper shovel) weighs a bit more but it is about the best small digging tool ever devised.

* firearm(s)
* ammo
* cleaning/maintenance kit

* mini-binos
* compass
* map(s)
* LED flashlight with extra AA batteries (lasts a LONG time)

* sewing kit (1 to 3 colors nylon thread in light and heavy weight, extra needles of various sizes, & a Speedy Stitch tool)
* paracord (100ft minimum)
* 3M or Permatex automotive super weatherstrip adhesive
* Devcon contact adhesive
* duct (duck, 90mph) tape
* lockwire or bailing wire (repair wire can often be scavanged)

* gloves - 2 pair, insulated hunter's style & tough leather work style or 1 pair leather work gloves and militarly arctic mittens with a trigger finger (The old time Eskimos would say that a man without gloves is a dead man.)
* extra socks and underwear
* cold weather clothes
* spare pair of sneakers
* extra pants and shirt

* first aid/health maintenance kit
* bug repellant
* men's deodorant, non-clear stick type, scentless (works wonders for athlete's foot cure and prevention)
* soap (several bars, scentless like Ivory)
* plastic backpacker's soap container
* towel & washcloth
* toothbrush plus a couple of spares
* baking soda for brushing teeth (use powdered charcoal when that runs out)
* collapsable wash basin (collapsable hiker's dog bowl will work, heat the water in your cook pot/cup and pour it in the basin)

(keeping relatively clean in the boonies is not that hard unless you are a lazy dirtbag and it goes a LONG way to keeping you healthy)

* something to read and something to write with
* maybe some playing cards (optional)
* adult human female (optional, your mileage may vary)
* maybe small solar/wind up SW radio (optional)

· Registered
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Generally for most of us "bug out" by foot would be a final option NOT the first option. But then I don't have a crystal ball and freely admit it. If the balloon went up and I had to leave I would prefer to stuff my SUV with what ever I could. In the event of abandoning the vehicle hopefully I could cache the contents.

Decisions on what to carry will depend on your geographical location, annual temperature fluctuations, your physical fitness and those with you among other things. I stress everybodys situation is different.

Canadian 82 Pattern Web Gear (left to right)

1) Pistol Mag Pouch (2 mags)

2) Rifle Mag Pouch (2 mags)

3) Gas Mask Carrier (contains) C4 mask
(side pouch) 2x decontamination mitts CW
2 pkg Detector Chemical Agent
2 pkg Paper Chemical Agent Detector
5.56mm Cleaning rod and brush
shaving brush
36x 6" pipe cleaners
small pair of needle nose pliers

4) 1 Quart canteen w/ cover & cup (cup for boiling water)

5) Buttpack
- 1 pr wool socks in ziplock bag
- 120 ml bottle of SPF 30 sunblock
- 50 mg Bottle of footpowder
-1/2 roll of charmin in ziplock bag
-1 survival fishing kit
-1 wire saw
-2 rolls snare wire
-1 Hexamine solid fuel cooker
-1 toothbrush
-3 oz hair shampoo
-1 spare rubber air mattress plug
-1 comb
-50 yds dental floss
-1 chapstick
-12 electo plast bandaids
-1 olive drab hand towel
-2 arctic candles
-1 range card w/ sentry orders on back
-1 small bar of soap
-1 cntr Tylenol caplets
-12 aspirin
-1x50 ml bottle bug juice w/ deet
-10' paracord
-2x patches for rubber air mattress
-1 Sewing kit
-1 Tube camouflage face paint
-1 pair ear plugs
-1 box waterproof matches
-1 serving Mountain House Lasagna
-1 Plastic food container 8"x5"x2"
- 1x46gm bag of plain rice
- 2x 45 gm bag instant potatoes
-2x 50 gm Blueberry apple cereal
-4x 4 gm pkg coffeemate
-2x 28 gm pkg Hot Chocolate
-3x pkg pepper
-4x pkg salt
-1 small plastic spoon
-1x book matches
-1x 6 gm pkg lifesavers
-4 pkg Bovril Beef Bouillon Mix
-8 Butterscotch Hard Candies

6) Carrier Pouch: Gortex Rain Jacket

7) Pouch containing KFS & pocket knife (18" para cord attaches knife to webbing)

8) 1 Qt canteen, carrier & cup(cup for washing)

9) Mag pouch x2 Rifle

10) Compass w/ silva compass

11) Harness- 2x Field Bandages
- 2x Carabiners
-1x Plastic Clarger for 5.56mm Stripper Clips

Patrol Pack (Canadian Army Experimental 1,900 cu in) (3-4 days)

1) Ranger Blanket

2) Combat sweater

3) Fleece Jacket

4) Field Message Pad w/ protractor,2 Range Cards, Aide
Memoire Battlefield First Aid,2 Pens,pencil,2 highlighters

5) Neoprene/Nylon/Fleece gloves

6)5x single meal packs in quart sized ziplock freezer bags, each contains
-1x50 g bag Instant flavoured oatmeal
-1x45g bag Instant Mashed Potatoes
-2x4g envelopes Coffeemate
-3x envelopes salt
-3x envelopes pepper
-2x envelopes Bovril Beef Bouillon Mix
-2x envelopes tea
-1x envelope fruit beverage powder
-1x43g tube of honey or 1x34 g tube of peanut butter
-1x pack flavoured gum
-1x pack 10 hard candies (Werthers Butterscotch)
-1x envelope Hot Chocolate
-1x 28g package beef jerky
-1x Package Cup a Soup
-1x Book of Matches
-1x Package salted nuts

7) 8x35 binoculars

8) 4 local topo maps, 1 provincial grid map, 1 provincial highway maps

9) Rifle Cleaning kit

10) 50' Para Cord

11) 1 roll charmin in ziplock bag

12) Odds & Ends Bag- 3x Tube Cam Cream, (ziplock bag) Black,Brown, Green
- NVG Green Fingerlight
- Sewing Kit
- Bug Juice
- Water Purification Tablets
-Waterproof Matches
- Book: Platoon Commanders Aide Memoire

Rucksack (Dana Classic Bombpack, 3,200 cu in) (10+ days)

1) Sleeping Bag
(complete includes inner, outer, flannelette liner, air mattress, sheet utility, bivy bag)
2) toque
3) combat shirt
4) combat trousers (lightweight)
5) combat sweater
6) combat gloves with wool liner
7) undershirts x2
8) underwearx2
9) socks greyx2pr
10) spare boot laces
11) boot silicone (DOUBLE zip locked bagged)
12) Forest green Aladdin coffee cup w/ lid
13) 1/2 Roll of Charmin (zip lock bag)
14) olive drab fleece jecket
15) Rain suit pants
16) 8x single meal packs in quart sized ziplock freezer bags, each contains
-1x50 g bag Instant flavoured oatmeal
-1x45g bag Instant Mashed Potatoes
-2x4g envelopes Coffeemate
-3x envelopes salt
-3x envelopes pepper
-2x envelopes Bovril Beef Bouillon Mix
-2x envelopes tea
-1x envelope fruit beverage powder
-1x43g tube of honey or 1x34 g tube of peanut butter
-1x pack flavoured gum
-1x pack 10 hard candies (Werthers Butterscotch)
-1x envelope Hot Chocolate
-1x Book of Matches
17) 2x 1 Quart canteen w/ cover and cup

- I have rifle magazine pouches for double mags in 7.62mm NATO (currently on webbing), double mag pouches in 5.56mm, & double en bloc clip pouches for the M1 Garand changing them to suit the appropriate rifle is less than 10 minutes work;
-additional "en block" clips would be carried in British 5.56mm bandoleers, nylon with a closable snap;
- Holster used is the US M7 holster in which I carried a handgun on duty while in the Military while overseas and in the field.
- On my pants belt is located my Gerber Multi Tool and Mini Mag w/ assorted filters.

· Registered
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If a person has to bug out, the time of year would be critical.

The make or break factor would be how much food you can bring with you and how much food you can harvest before winter hits and/or you run out.

GK likes to pat himself on the back for being 'clever', thinking he can 'cheat the game' by ignoring taboos on cannibalism. I've heard the same from some others on the web.

That is the lazy way out and it's extremely self destructive. The health risks are astronomical (there's no way to dress out the 'food' without exposure to human body fluids), not to mention the retribution factor. Even sworn enemies will band together to wipe out a cannibal.

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Bragging about doing the Jeffery Dalmer thing and actually doing it are two different mindsets. There is too much food available on this continent to have to resort to that. Survival, if the balloon ever goes up depends on preparation and knowledge. Cutting corners or depending on "luck" would only lead you to an early grave.

· Banned
9,121 Posts
wtf do long, tappan, or U know about it.

other than the fact that YOU-they can't HANDLE it, hmm? Nothing, that's what. Many men have PROVEN that it works, you just have to be properly skilled, equipped, fit, and MEAN enough, that's all.

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10,994 Posts
??????????????????????????? Didn't we just say some of that? So post your kit list gunkid!

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Re: wtf do long, tappan, or U know about it.

223 fan said:
other than the fact that YOU-they can't HANDLE it, hmm? Nothing, that's what. Many men have PROVEN that it works, you just have to be properly skilled, equipped, fit, and MEAN enough, that's all.
Can't handle what? Eating diseased human flesh?

THAT is a 100% ticket to a lingering death by disease and parasitic infection. The Andes survivors did it only because it was the ONLY food in the area and they did it for a short time.

There is also the point of survival itself, one's humanity. Anyone lacking that is nothing but a waste of valuable oxygen and shooting them is about on par with shooting a scavanging coyote.

Resorting to cannibalism is the cheap, lazy way out, lacking in courage and skill to do real hunting.

What you're saying actually is that you don't know how to hunt and don't have much, if any, practice at wilderness skills and woodslore?

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You guys assume that one must be totally cut off from anyone else if your a "backpack survivalist". This is not so many people make it their lifestyle in the here and now and get along doing it just fine. One can stash their pack or gun and go into town for stuff. No need to isolate yourself from all other human contact.

All these dreams of whats gonna happen with "shtf" are just that, DREAMS.

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10,994 Posts
IF the balloon ever goes up, for all except one here it would be a FINAL option, not the first option. Its always interesting to explore the hypothetical!
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