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The Gospel According To John (Moses Browning)

John Moses Browning was perhaps the finest firearms designer, ever._ His designs continue to work and to serve almost 100 years after they were created._ There is an ongoing controversy about the reliability and safety of current 1911s vs. other pistols and I think this about sums the situation up.
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As translated from the original ancient manuscripts by Friar Frog.

_1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good._ And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith._ For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

_2 And shouldst thou muck with it_ and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

_3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911._ The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase._ For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights , which are an abomination unto the Lord._ For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim._ And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

_8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.

_9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

_10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken._ Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men._ And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.
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a_ Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4._ And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers dids't not fall but did continue to cause great harm."
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Actually, John didn't have much to do with the 1911 design at all. The military worked it out mostly with guys at Colt. Anything that you use a lot, and need real bad to work, you'd better have TWO of. In the military, you will practice almost not at all, and a civillan can easily have a practice-spare and a ccw gun, and he's well advised to do so. So you can have adjustable sights, cause you wont be shooting the ccw gun enough to break them.
 

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Wow, Browning didn't have much to do with the 1911? Those cotton picking history revisionists have been at it again.
 

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Ankeny said:
Wow, Browning didn't have much to do with the 1911? Those cotton picking history revisionists have been at it again.
you just don't live in the appropriate alternate reality...

:devil:
 

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Thank you Hard Ball. John Browning was our most profilic firearms inventor and certainly one of the most brilliant.

RIKA
 

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1911 badly needs better sights than the orignal design, as well as stippling, enlarged and flared ejection port, throated feed ramp, beveled mag well, a ducktail grip safety, night sights, and for ccw, it needs an alloy frame and some more compactness, too.
 

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I suppose the same could have been said about cars too. Henry Ford was an idiot, just look at a model T compared to a modern car.

Unless, of course, you look at either the car or the gun within the context of when they came out...

naw, that's too hard and actually requires thinking and all that other hard stuff.

:devil:
 

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andy said:
1911 badly needs better sights than the orignal design, as well as stippling, enlarged and flared ejection port, throated feed ramp, beveled mag well, a ducktail grip safety, night sights, and for ccw, it needs an alloy frame and some more compactness, too.

Skip the BS.For what it was designed to do the 1911 is just about perfect.

None of that crap was required until people deceided to turn an implement of battle into a sporting toy.
 

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He's just upset that he can't get his crapped out Star to work as reliably as the 1911 - even with all his butchering.

RIKA
 

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says a lame like you. The original model gave pretter severe problems with hammer bite, missing the safety, etc,and HEY CLOWN wake up. We aint IN the miitary, and neither are YOU, and the 1911 AINT military issue any more, and it never was that great, as issued. .45 ball sucks as a manstopper, as has been proven many times, and jhp's choke on the GI feed ramp. You wanna be without the very useful mods, nobody cares if you die, because of the lack of them, or just out of your own stupidity.
 

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We're talking about the 1911, not the 1902 moron. The 1911 sure is military issue - tell your lies to the Marines and Spec Ops.

and jhp's choke on the GI feed ramp. Tell that to my 1943 Remington Rand clown. It gobbles up everything just fine.

As for mods, I have them on my guns but my pristine military issue WW2 1911 is good to go as a combat weapon as much today as 60 years ago.

You are an ignorant babbling lame and I just proved it.

RIKA
 

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Dumb response. The 1911 and 1911A1, served well and faithfully for over seventy years. I never shot anyone with one, but I was sure glad to have it strapped to my scrawny hip when I went in harm's way. Not designed by John Browning? Not very good? .45 ACP not an effective manstopper? Why do you keep showing your ignorance? My Series '70 has had no modifications done to it whatsoever, and feeds hollowpoints perfectly. It even reliably fed the old Speer "flying ashtray" round. The Colt .45 1911 is a classic, and the only ones I have seen fail were ones that were "tuned" or brought to such tight tolerances they really weren't a Model 1911 any longer.
 

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Guys, just face it. You don't live in the proper alternate reality. GunKid does. In his reality, those statements he made are perfectly true.

I don't know which was more ridiculous - the John Browning remark or the not GI remark. (both rank high in the sheer stupidity dept.)

:devil:
 

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andy said:
1911 badly needs better sights than the orignal design, as well as stippling, enlarged and flared ejection port, throated feed ramp, beveled mag well, a ducktail grip safety, night sights, and for ccw, it needs an alloy frame and some more compactness, too.
Interesting, all these modifications deemed necessary by someone who proclaims the "obvious superiority of the 1911". (Your words, btw)

Let's go thru this item by item. So I take a Chevy Impala, and:

- change to an aftermarket steering system (sights - directional control),
- add aftermarket traction-control system (stippling - grip control),
- grind down the exhaust system (ejection port)
- replace the fuel injection system (feed ramp)
- make the gas cap accessible (mag well)
- replace the seatbelts with five-point safety harness (beavertail)
- replace the headlights with high-intensity aftermarkets (night sights)


and then I can show off my custom car, and proclaim the "obvious superiority of the Chevy Impala". :headbang:


To further the analogy:

- sell the Impala, buy a smaller, lighter car, and start again from scratch. (lighter, smaller approach, with the same modifications as above)


Silly perhaps, but my point is this: if you DO all those modifications (which are GOOD things), you don't have a "1911", or even a "1911A1". You've got a 2004 gun with very modern modifications; they're just applied to a century-old frame. These modifications are good things, and my Colt and Detonics have most of them. But a "1911" never did.

There are a lot of folks who point to the 90+ year track record of the "1911" (which is very good) as the basis for its "obvious superiority". Yet the guns of 90 years ago, and even 30 years ago, were VERY different than the guns being made now.

The ones being made now are much better; a sign that progress and evolution are inevitable, and as hard as it is for some to swallow, necessary.
 

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Amazing, my Gov't model just loves 230 grain "Montana Gold" JHP's.
 

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I thought the Browning Hi Power

was JMB's "best". :)

Ok, that's just what I carry when I do carry a large pistol. Trigger will never be as nice as the 1911, that I know of, even though I got the magazine safety disconnect removed and had him reduce the pull. Still ain't as nice as a crisp trigger on a 1911 .45. But I'll trade that handicap for capacity. I shoot it well enough for me.

BTW, I know JMB died during the early design stages of the P35 and the actual finished product was done by an employee, who's name I forget...
 

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i dont care what sort of analogy you use, the basic action is IDENTICAL to what came out in 1911. The cars I don't care about. all they are is a means of transport, and a poor, expensive one at that. A motorcycle is far better off road, or just for evasion and escape, and probably a lot cheaper for commuting, altho dangerous and not usable in cold weather.
 

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I do have to say that the only 1911 that worked for me right out of the box was a standard, 1911A1 type loosey-deucey "mil-spec" type gun. Wasn't bad on accuracy either, would do 5" at 25 yards which is just fine for its intended function.

Like a guy told me one time about 1911s -- Don't make 'em tight, make 'em right.
 
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