[Glenn Bartley]

Rich,

Posting new threads to answer existing threads & posting other possibly unsuitable material, should, in my opinion, not be tolerated on this site for the good of the site.

You know I have never, and I do mean never unless it was done as an honest mistake, before seen an instance anywhere else (and I do mean anywhere other than this site) of someone starting (a) new thread(s) to answer points made in an already existing thread! As I see it, the proper, courteous, respectful and NORMAL way to post an answer to something already being discussed in a thread is to post a reply in that same thread. As I see it: starting a new thread probably takes up unnecessary space (band width???), spreads out the topic to areas where it was never intended to be by the original thread starter, makes it difficult to follow the concept under discussion, is rude, and is rather childish. It is, in my opinion, extremely immature when someone has a need to create new threads apparently to make himself appear as being the most quantitative contributor on a message board. Of course, while that same person may submit the most in quantity, he never will amount to much, in my viewpoint, in regards to quality because of the manner in which he writes what I believe are demeaning and often foully worded posts.

It really is a shame, in my opinion, that this is allowed to continue unabated. To even think for a moment that this person is contributing more than others is, I believe, preposterous! To imagine that his quantity of posts is helping this site in some way is, I think, off the mark. If I were to emulate his behavior, and go to the other forums right now, and open one, two or three new threads to address each existing thread, I suppose I would aggravate the humor of the webslave and of the other site users. I do not think I would get the support of anyone on this site, and I am fairly certain I would be told to stop such behavior either in an open forum or privately in an email. If I started to call other people dumbasses (his spelling), jerks, <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>s, stupid, <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> or other like terms, well I think my use of such terms would be frowned upon, and that you would let me know it. Just think though, if I started to emulate this person, who does this multiple times on a daily basis, then would others choose to do likewise? If that were the case, then just imagine this site when every user or the majority of them did the same thing. Sure it would look likes lots of site traffic, but it likely would never attract users who were really interested in firearms or other types of arms because all of the threads probably would appear to be nonsensical. Rather, I think it would attract those who wished to get into pissing matches a regular basis, and they who have a need to puff up their chests along with their egos at every opportunity! Right now thankfully, it is only one person who, as I see it, abuses this site and who apparently resorts to such over and over again.

If I aped his posting style on faunaclassifieds.com, or any other of your sites, would my doing so be tolerated. I think not. Now, I realize this site is run differently than some others you own, and you can do as you choose with your sites; but I wonder why is this one run so differently? Why is this behavior tolerated here in all of the forums? Why can’t people come to this site and expect to be greeted respectfully when posting? Why can’t it be set up so that when someone repeatedly violates the norms of common courtesy… No that is way too mild, let me rephrase that: Why can’t it be set up so that if someone repeatedly and blatantly insults users and otherwise acts in a totally disrespectful manner, and if someone also repeatedly posts what amounts to or comes very close to fighting language, and if someone repeatedly advocates what sure seems to me like illegal activity, well why can't it be that said person is warned not to do so. Then if he continues, why can't it be that he is ultimately banned from the site?

As far as this site ever becoming one of the better known and utilized arms sites goes, I think there is no to little chance of that when such postings are allowed to proliferate. I would rather see this site grow and expand with integrity, than be dragged down into the dirt as I believe is now happening due to what I believe is little more than the ranting of a single user. I cannot speak for anyone else who uses this site, so I will just ask for myself: Isn't there anything you can do to improve the integrity of ArmsLocker.com along the lines I just discussed? :headbang:

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[andy]

i,personally,made HardCoreTalk,the biggest gun forum on the net,for many months. Then the pos's took over, and ruined it. Until I pumped up this site, it was NOTHING. I've got 100x the gun info posted here than you do, and I aint even got started on what I know about the subject. You could post everything YOU know about it on one page, dude. What's a waste of bandwith is bozos doing nothing but bitch about other people.

 

[TODD 3465]

Gk that is pure-

 

[Hard Ball]

Clean up your act GK, Andy, .223 fan or whoever you are calling yourself today.

 

[TODD 3465]

The only time you'd be a asset to a forum is when-

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Until I pumped up this site, it was NOTHING.

You have, in my opinion, contributed little more than what it takes to pump something up - that being hot air. You state facts and statistics that are readily available in gun books and claim them as your knowledge. I wonder is it really your knowledge? You tell stories of your great accomplishments with guns, yet offer no proof. You tell of your many acquaintances in the gun world, some famous but I have never once heard them tell of you - although they readily tell of many real men they have met. You give practical advice on how to handle survival and shooting situations, but in my opinion there is little practicality, if any, in the so called practical advice you give. So yes youcan pump up this site, but as I see it, all it amounts to is hot air or rehased readily available information.


Sincerely,
Glenn B

 

[Rich Z]

Isn't there anything you can do to improve the integrity of ArmsLocker.com along the lines I just discussed?

So it's on my shoulders, eh Glenn? Like I have time at this time of the year to even worry about this.........

Maybe if all of the other posters on this site (YOU included) made an effort to overwhelm the unsuitable posts with ones more in keeping with what YOU want to see, perhaps that would make a difference. Let's put some of this burden on YOUR shoulders, eh?

Right now this site is VERY low on my priority list. It is all up to YOU to make it what it will be. I'm not going to be the "daddy" here.

 

[Rich Z]

One further thought before I get back over to the salt mines and pack up shipments for today:

If you all continually respond to a particular person's posts feeding him the attention he wants and continuing discussions along the lines that he leads you, just what exactly do you expect as a result? If people post fresh ideas and ignore the off topic or derogatory leanings, maybe that would be a better way to handle this situation instead of wanting me to step in and do it for you.

Anyone who does not utilize the ignore list is reading exactly what they want to read.

Later..... I have work to do.

 

[andy]

they don't KNOW enough to post any new gun topics, Rich. That's obvious. they are SCARED of making a mistake, and having me point it out.

 

[andy]

oh, and all YOU talk about is your PERSONAL experience with guns, RIGHT? All half a paragraph of it? Anyone who can read can see that I've posted many,many hundreds of gun topics. they can ALSO see that you haven't posted ANY such topics. Nor have you posted any replies to gun topics that amounted to a crap.

 

[andy]

Have you earned a black belt? Have you written a "how to" book that's sold over 150,000 copies? would you DARE to write that book, while in "the hole", in a federal prison? Would you dare to jump bail? Would you dare to escape? Would you have a CLUE how to make a lot of money, off the books? Can you cut a thread on a lathe? Have you ever worked for a month, loading manure spreaders by hand, $1 a day? I did, as a kid, to buy BB's with. Have you gone without lunch, for YEARS, in order to buy .22 ammo with the money? I did, as a kid. Have you ever run 1.5 miles home, then run .5 mile to work, to do heavy manual labor for 4-5 more hours, after school? I did.

Have you worked a 40 hour week, standing on concrete, then taken full time GI bill college classes, so you could get the money to be in the Top Twenty of the World, IPSC? I did, for 3 years.

Have you ever had the sort of smithing shop and knowledge to make silenced smg's, in the back of a van, while you were on the run? I did. I've done so many things that you can't even IMAGINE yourself doing that there's no need to further belabor the point.

 

[Aslan]

Actually, I beleive there are at least three black belts (equivalents, not all systems use belts - some use sashes, and the higher ranks are not black - organge, red, and purple - for example in some systems) that post here, though I may be wrong and the number could be higher or lower.

Most people with real experience won't try and throw it in everyone's face - that's usually the tactic of a pretender.

The rest of your post? Ok, big deal. Some of the things you brag about paint you as being stupid or making really bad choices. You see them as points of honor, others see them as points of shame.

So you had to work hard. So did a lot of other people.

Evidently you didn't learn anything from the experience - you still think solely in terms of committing further crimes.

If you think your resume means anything, then you are sadly mistaken.

Just more drama from the drama queen.

:devil:

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Rich,

When I post I try to start threads that are respectful, informative, inquisitive, and interesting as opposed to insulting, derogatory, banal, distorted, uninformative, incorrect and indicative of criminal intent. Sure some things posted by the other party in question are quite informative, but many in my opinion are full of poorly thought out practical advice, book info repeated by rote claimed as self experienced knowledge, and plainly insulting language. I need not try to overwhelm anything like that by posting my own overwhelming quantity. Furthermore on quantity, what makes you think there would be any amount of posts that would overwhelm the other party’s threads. My guess is that it would just cause him to post more. My guess is also that he has little better to do with life such as actually enjoy firearms shooting, collecting and so forth because he spends so much time posting.

I, and others like me, have obligations other than to this web site. I don’t have time to post a thousand threads, let alone two thousand or more in a short time frame. Are you suggesting that I do what the other party does by answering pre-existing threads with new threads so as to try and overwhelm him? I would not resort to what I believe are such disrespectful methods. I would not stoop that low. As for simply posting so many threads as to overwhelm him, I am rather surprised that you would suggest using his own technique, that of trying to overwhelm the users of this site with his ranting, to try to overwhelm him.

Back to obligations and responsibilities, while you too may have other obligations as you pointed out, this website is nonetheless your obligation since you are the webslave/owner of the site. The fact of the matter is that yes you, the webslave is allowing someone to abuse the privilege of posting on this site, and yes the integrity of the site is your responsibility as the webslave. It is also the responsibility of the person who is doing such, more his than yours, but since he has run amok and will, in my opinion, apparently not act responsibly there is only one person with the ability to cut him off and that would be you. To place the blame for him or the responsibility for curtailing him onto the shoulders of the other users is less than respectful to your supporters. But then it is your site to do with as you please. It is scary to think that you seem to like it this way with all of the trash talk. If you want a trash site then I think that is exactly what you have gotten for yourself at ArmsLocker.com because the trash posts are, in my opinion, overflowing. I almost wish I had never thought up the name, or become a member of the advisory committee because it is really a figurative kick in the balls from this site when such drivel is allowed to be the prevailing fodder of the forums.

As far as using an ignore feature goes, it should be completely unnecessary to have to use one. There should be no need because either the other party should not be posting what in my opinion is junk, or he should be shown the door. Why show him the door, well if for no other reason than out of self-respect for a site which you created, and out of respect for the other users of the site. Of course there is another option by which to ignore what I believe to be these vile posts, and that would be to avoid this site. I could push the good old ignore button and avoid ArmsLocker.com altogether. I already know of a few people who have chosen to do so because of the type of posting that is rampant therein. I however would rather not be one of them, I would rather remain here as a participant, but I also would rather see this site as one in which such posts (the nasty ones) do not exist or at least are kept to a bare minimum. I am not against disagreement or arguments in threads, heck I think you know that especially since I am arguing my point right now. I am against having all that trash piled up here, and am against the fact that the stink of the trash is keeping plenty of good people away from this site. Just having the other users of this site add quantity is not going to solve anything in regard to that problem, that would be akin to putting air freshener on a landfill, it only covers the stink for a while, the stink is still growing stronger and stronger because a dump is a dump and is full of trash. It is by nature a foul and smelly place, but this site need not be a trash heap.

Nor will an ignore feature help this site. New people will not know to ignore the nefarious types of threads and posts, they will likely read them, and they will probably leave as quickly as they had come, if not quicker. I realize that I too expressed the thought of ignoring certain posts by the other party, but I have come to see that ignoring something is not a practical way of solving a problem. Heck I am 48 years old and you would think I would have known better. I guess I regressed on that one, but at least now I see the error in thinking that ignoring a problem will make it go away. Ignoring it will only allow it to fester out of sight and out of mind until drastic actions are required to excise it.

Finally, I was really surprised to see you try to shift the responsibility for this site to me and the other users.

Maybe if all of the other posters on this site (YOU included) made an effort to overwhelm the unsuitable posts with ones more in keeping with what YOU want to see, perhaps that would make a difference. Let's put some of this burden on YOUR shoulders, eh?

That was, I think, a poor taste tactic on your part especially since so many of us have already expressed our interest in helping you out with this site. Have you forgotten that we have already been helpful to you in creation of the site, or have you forgotten that you recently solicited our help and that quite a few of us volunteered to help you?

Yes there really needs to be something done to curtail the foul posts and threads, and yes the sites membership seems ready to help yu out on it. I seem to remember you asked for people to volunteer as moderators recently. I seem to remember volunteering, as I believe quite a few others also did. Now when I ask that you do something to improve the integrity of this board you throw it back in my face! Well I already volunteered, I am willing to do something along the lines already suggested by you. I am not going to ignore the problem, nor will I try to overwhelm it thereby utilizing the same methods of the party with whom I have found fault, but if you want a moderator and if you are willing to set up rules for moderation and a point system – well as I said you have volunteers - what more need I say, eh! (Yeah I guess I am a little miffed about this last point, but I guess it would only be otherwise if I just did not give a hoot about this site.)


**********************************************************

This next is for 223 Fan:

As to 223 Fan telling me I have not posted anything that amounted to crap, I agree whole heartily that I never post anything that amounts to crap – I leave posting of crap to people like him and he surely does, in my opinion, post a lot of it. As for all of his claimed accomplishments and his claimed hardships, please get out your violin. I have done more than my fair my share of hard work, and have accomplished a lot of things in life - the best being raising two children who are good, respectful citizens. I have also had some other fine accomplishments including locking up some of whom I consider to be the scum of the earth. I take some pleasure in it when they are sentenced to long prison terms and kept away from the rest of society. Another of my fine accomplishments has been that I have remained on the right side of the law. You see though there is a difference between us more than just which side of the law we are on. I don't have the incessant need to brag about things I have done as I believe you do have that need. I don't have an ego that needs inflating to the maximum as you seem to have. I am confident in my abilities and my accomplishments, and I realize to that I have had failures. I am pretty satisfied that people see this in me and therefor I don't need to constantly blow my own horn, yet somehow I still get recognition. I get others who often compliment me and that is nice, and I appreciate the compliments. Have you had more than one person compliment you recently? Certainly not that I have seen on these boards. Oh well, keep up your threads and your posting, and keep giving out information that noone ever wanted to know (heavy sarcasm intentional), if nothing else it is amusing, and try to keep also giving out some good info (yes I have given you credit where it is due - something I don't think I have ever seen you do to another user of this site). I ask only that you stop a few things, please stop the repeated foul wording of your posts and please stop being insulting and derogatory in your approach to others, please do not advocate illegal activity, and please stop answering a thread by posting a new thread. You can claim you know it all, that others are incorrect in what they say, that you know the best way and so forth all in civil terms, can't you?

You should stop the nasty stuff if for no other reason than out of self respect, and maybe also because if you do stop it someone else may actually start to believe that you know what you are talking about or that you really experienced what you say you have, and then they may learn something from you more than that you are often seen as intolerant and intolerable. After all why are you posting here in the first place if not to pass on your knowledge to others, unless of course the others are right and it is just to fulfill your egotistical fantasies. I would hope it is the former and not the latter, and if so I would hope you would make every effort to curtail the trash talk. It really isn't that hard, if I can do it then certainly a man like you should be able to also.

Sincerely,
Glenn B

 

[SatCong]

GB,
People have different "currency". Most of us, I hope, use good things-- a fulfilling, well-lived life, friends, family and positive results, as that currency. It is unfortunate that sociopaths have to live in their own skin with little or no understanding of what is good in this world. I think your observations regarding ArmsLocker come from a true heart that wants the best for what this site can be. Hear, hear!
SatCong

 

[Rich Z]

Glenn,

About the request for volunteers for moderators, this is the reply from you that caught my eye:

I would be willing to help out as either, but I would not want to do it if I was the only one.

Well why wouldn't you want to be a moderator if you would be the only one? Do you think it is more than you can handle? If I ask a moderator to help out, yes it will be ONLY one. I don't think the traffic here warrants more than that.

As far as what I would expect of a moderator, here's a thumbnail sketch:

1. A light touch in all respects. No heavy handed approach towards anyone.
2. Edits are preferred over deletions, whenever possible.
3. Thread moves are preferred over deletions, whenever possible.
4. Personal opinions of a poster cannot affect your judgement of the merits of what they post.
5. If in doubt, don't. Give the benefit of the doubt.
6. A moderator's purpose is to help keep the peace, not chase off the visitors.

Probably more that I have forgotten, but that's a start.

Andy/223 fan is abrasive, there is no denying that, but the simple fact of the matter is that he is right when he says this site was moribund when he showed up. Since I was at the verge of abandoning this site anyway, what exactly do I have to lose by letting things run their course as they are now? My reputation? Reputation as what? I am not in this type of business, so I can't lose that. Nor do I ever intend to, so I don't have to worry about a future reputation. I set up this site purely for my own enjoyment. Spending a lot of time playing the heavy and watching over everyone's shoulders every minute is NOT my idea of fun, and I just am NOT going to do it. If someone else wants to take a stab at it, well I am willing to try it out, but if this person winds up scuttling this site with the manner in which they do it, then was my decision the best one to make?

I expect people to get out of this site exactly what they put into it. If they find enjoyment in posting derogatory verbal barbs at each other, then perhaps that is the way this site will go. Nothing wrong with some passive entertainment, now is there? As far as this site becoming a major gun site, heck, why should I care about that? I really don't care either way. I would like some participation, and appreciate having people to talk with about something I enjoy, but I have no illusions about anything other than that.

So what do you think, Glen? Can you strike the delicate balance between keeping things moderated in such a way so that you will create a more peaceful environment here yet won't chase away people in the process? Perhaps that is easier for you to do then it has been for me, since you appear to believe I am failing miserably in the process.

I'm holding out the baton to you. Take it or not, your choice.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Well why wouldn't you want to be a moderator if you would be the only one? Do you think it is more than you can handle?

Sure it would be too much for me, didn't I already explain I am willing to help out but I have other obligations like family, job etc. This is not my web site, I am not responsible for it, but I am willing to help. Don't be a wise guy with your questions, it is really below you. I offered to help, not take on the full burden of responsibility for what is posted or watched over on your site. If you don't want the help fine.

As far as this site becoming a major gun site, heck, why should I care about that? I really don't care either way. I would like some participation, and appreciate having people to talk with about something I enjoy, but I have no illusions about anything other than that.

You could have fooled me with all the early gung ho stuff that you did to get this site going, to have an advisory committee, to have a feedback forum, to post wondering about why you were not getting newly registered people to remain here as users.

As far as me moderating by myself, again I offered only if I would not be the solo moderator, don't try to now put the onus on me. This is your site, let it live or die by your own doings now. As far as chasing people away, there would only be one guy (maybe two) who would either get their acts together or be leaving if it was up to me.

As far as this site being moribund, give it a break, it is worse than that now, it is downright insulting to any of the respectable users - since you think that is acceptable, or just don't care, you just lost one. I will find somewhere else to talk about firearms and hunting. Goodbye.

Sincerely,
Glenn Bartley

 

[Rich Z]

Man, it REALLY pisses people off if I don't jump to their tune, now doesn't it?

Glenn says he has another life so can't be bothered with taking over the responsibilities on this site to make it what he wants, yet that is exactly what he expects of me.

Yep, you're right Glenn, I have nothing else to do, no life at all like you do, so it is pure damned laziness on my part, now isn't it? I COULD spend all day here patrolling and moderating, but that damned lazy SOB Rich Z wastes his time on other frivolous things.....

Sheesh.....

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Rich,

Well this is my last word on this only because I owe that last bs reply from you a response if only because your claim is so outrageous! I never once said this:

Glenn says he has another life so can't be bothered with taking over the responsibilities on this site to make it what he wants, yet that is exactly what he expects of me.

Either that was a mistake or a blatant lie on your part. You see here is what I actually said: this:

"This is not my web site, I am not responsible for it, but I am willing to help. Don't be a wise guy with your questions, it is really below you. I offered to help, not take on the full burden of responsibility for what is posted or watched over on your site."

Help is exactly what I offered, I did not offer welfare or salvation or to take complete responsibility for something that you own. To now seemingly suggest that I did something less than proper by presenting my freely offered help is ludicrous as I see it. You looked the gift horse in the mouth, while at the same time snubbing the bearer of the gift when you said what I quoted above.

I really had thought my help would have pleased everyone on this site, including you, with the exception of one person. I did not want you to dance or jump to my tune, I thought you would have realized that a great many people who use your armslocker.com site felt the same as I did. Well, at least that is how they voice themselves through their posts. They are apparently sick of seeing the trash posting of one (or more individuals). Then when offered a chance to make your site a better place, you decide to try and dump on someone who offers the help. Hell, you asked for the help, why ask for help if not willing to follow up on it. Why have an Advisory Committee, why have a Feedback Foruum? Why make out now like only one person, and one person alone, can offer help or actually can help, or that more than one would be unwelcome or unfeasible, or that one person should alone have to assume full responsibility for your site. Why - my guess is because you really do not want help! You did all that, as I see it, only after I asked you to improve the quality of your site; and isn't it funny but I offered to help long before I ever questioned the quality of this site - didn't I! Funny how you adjust your puckering to the wind of the day; and sad that you have, in my opinion, adjusted it to pucker up for what seems to me to be the most vile stuff on this site.

Well the bottom result as far as I am concerned is: Too bad, as I see it, you looked a friend in the face and you decided to spit. You have to live with that action, not me. I wiped it off and while a bit degrading it doesn't scar, at least not on my end. I really don't care if you jump to my tune as you put it after all it is your website. You seemingly expect people to jump to yours, which is fine with me to a point since it is your site. To a point - that is the important thing. Right now, it has become in my opinion so bad though, I choose not to jump, rollover or fetch when you command.

By the way, how dare you imply that I did not offer my help after what I have already done for this site, and after the help I have given to you at faunaclassifieds.com., and after my most recent offer of help. You have some set of huevos to imply that I did not offer help, or that my offer of help was not enough, or that I would expect you to do my bidding without my offer to reciprocate in some way. While my help may not have been earth shattering, I did not ever have to help you out at all. I always freely have offered it to you, to bad you recently had to place conditions on how much of it you would be willing to accept. Apparently you have a short memory span, since you never resorted to that in the past but rather accepted my help as always being good enough. If you did not want the changes then just say so! If you did not want the criticism then do away with the Feedback Forum and the Advisory Committee forums. Why bother making it look as if you are open to suggestions, change or offers of help when all you are ready to do is, in my opinion, wallow in what many apparently see as the trash. Man you have changed - in the wrong direction as I see it. Too bad.

Enjoy, if you truly can, what is in my opinion the pure unmitigated junk that is being posted here by one or two or three people. Sorry but I cannot even figure that out with certainty as it seems to me that a particular person is afraid to use a single registered user name but uses at least 2 and maybe 3 or more - this just based upon my judging from writing styles of some posts under different user names. I truly hope the content of the questionable posts don't contribute to getting someone killed or injured, or motivate someone to perform illegal actions. You are as I see it surely and sorely tempting fate by allowing that stuff on your site. To bad you wouldn't clean it up.

Of course, all that is just my opinion. It may or may not well be along the lines of quite a few others on this site; but if I understood their sentiments correctly many others feel the same way. There only seem to be two people on this site who like, what in my opinion, are the trash posts - the person who actually posts them and you. You have let him, in my view, degrade this site so much I almost wonder if you are related to this guy! As for me, it does not really matter what anyone else thinks on this issue, I have my own principles to live with and I follow the course of action I am taking based upon them. With that I bid you happy and safe shooting, goodbye.

Sincerely,
Glenn B

 

[41mag]

You know Glenn,I voiced similar concers to Rich twice IIRC.I chose to use PM though.Anyways,his response to me was the same as he posted here to you.I CHOOSE to stay though.Even though DH/Andy/223 posts alot of wierd poop he does,VERY occasionally, post something I find useful.He did in fact today.IMNSHO integrity isn't the issue.Desire is.Does anyone desire to be here.I do.
Another thing Glenn?When I first arrived you & I had a difference of opinion because I missed your sarcasm in a post.I didn't "read" it.
Where is that sarcasm now?It makes an effective rebuttal tool to some of the antaganistic threads/replies.

This site is becoming both more popular,more populous,& livelier due to the efforts of an influx of "new"posters.I didn't really do anything to help promote the place(I did learn that the posters on a snake forum can get carried ALOT off track when they see reference to a gun site on your sig line.) but I do frequent it.And I contribute in small doses.
I too left because I didn't care for the insults.I came back though....

 

[41mag]

Oh & another thing.My job takes up 55 hours/week of my time too.