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Discussion Starter #1
Old topic, constant frustrations.

Its impossible to argue with a dedicated anti. So much garbage is spewed you have to juggle what to disprove first.

I do my best never to read anything published by either the MMM or Brady, but a friend sent me this link; I didn't know whether to laugh at it, ignore it, or write an angry email and be discounted as "another dangerous gunnut." How does the Brady Bunch get away with this kind of libel? This is bunk. This is guff. This is absolute tripe. Everything on this page is either a downright lie, an exageration, blown out of preportion, or at best, a half truth.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/ler/50_caliber/

The junk starts in the PDF files at the bottom. Claims include:

-Branch Davidians used .50 BMG weapons to shoot up a bradley, which offered "little protection." Sounds like a bit of a whopper to me, and if it isn't... awwww, they returned fire?

-Can take down airplanes; an oldie, but a goodie, and as usual, only a .50 can do this.

-Can destroy armored vehicles (duh, so can molotov cocktails, why don't they make it illegal to put gasoline in a container, it would make about as much sense), pulverize concrete bunkers, (images of the .45-70, various .300s and all-calibers-safari busting whatever you point them at emerge)
penetrate safes (we TOLD you bank robbers carry around $7000, 13kg rifles), and punch through manhole covers (they're so diligent when it comes to making our streets and all their components safer).

-Dealers selling them to dangerous people. The descriptions given, a man who wanted one "to defeat an armoured vehicle" and another who queried the dealer as to the destructive capability of the firearm, are vague, if they even happened.

-Accurate out to 2000 yards. Now here is what really worries me; a lot of rifles are accurate out to these distances. This isn't about .50s, its about erosion.

-Criminals have obtained these weapons. Duh, criminals obtain anything they want, they operate outside the law. Have they ever used them though?


Who comes up with this garbage? These people just aren't smart enough to be doing it themselves.
 

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great postin' coyote! man, i loved your counter-points![erosion :dgrin: ]

thanks.
 

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You're right about it being nearly impossible to talk to anti gunners. Ever had one stick their fingers into their ears and start shouting meaningless sounds to drown out your words while you were talking. Disgusting.

RIKA
 

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RIKA said:
Ever had one stick their fingers into their ears and start shouting meaningless sounds to drown out your words while you were talking. Disgusting.

RIKA
There's a couple of ways to handle this.
Since they are acting like a spoiled little brat, you can slap them in the face like you would a child who does it.

You can respond in kind when they try to talk.

Since they have their mouth open making childish noises (and often are laughing while they do it) there's ample opportunity to clear your lungs and spit down their throat.

Or you can look at them with utter disdain and mention that people like them -- grown adults that can't control themselves any better than a toddler -- is why people need to carry guns to protect themselves.
 

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Originally, they and the news media, and the corrupt government claimed that the Davidians used .50's and they said that they had proof because they "pulled a .50 BMG slug from the chest of an officer that had been hit." Seems his Level IIA vest was strong enough to keep a full power .50 BMG from exiting him at less than 200 yards...

That line, and that line alone told me that the Davidians were innocent of the charges brought against them and they were the victims of an out of control agency. Later, after several of us went to congress on the matter of that single "shot" the BATF and FBI changed their story. Good thing that we have the original comments on tape.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Heh, I was so mad when I wrote this, (arguing with a friend about .50s at the time via MSN) I just tapped it all out, clicked submit and kinda forgot about it.

Rika, heres a good ploy for an anti, I thought this up awhile ago: If they ever say "if a criminal breaks in you should leave your home" i.e., spouting factory made bull, ask them what floor their bedroom is on. If the home has a second floor, they're sleeping on it. Doors, unless liberals can fly, are usually at ground level. How is someone going to leave their home without initiating contact? Also (another musing) if they tell you that the 2nd amendment only applies to single-shot weapons, agree with them whole-heartedly and invite them to go shopping for a fifty with you.

I neglected to mention; I probably shouldn't get so worked up over stuff going on down south, not my country, and I have to deal with fascists here. The attitude though is universal, so I root for you guys.

Mike, out of curiosity, who is 'us'? Good job for taking that to the powers that be though.
 

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Us is a bunch of people in the firearms industry and related fields that testified as experts in ballistics and firearms related fields to the effect that at under 200 yards, there is simply no body armor that will stop a .50 BMG round at all. Some of us had the experience of being expert witnesses in court on the matter of firearms lending to the credibility of our stance.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Oh. Again, good job.. I hope you never have reason to do it again.
 

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This issue is a real head banger. Arguing with anti's is arguing with fools. "No regular citizen needs to own a Gun." OK, I'm a retired LEO, so I'm not a "regular citizen"?? " Killing animals is wrong." What are you eating? "If someone breaks into your home, you should call the police and leave. What if they won't let you leave, braindead? What if the response time is 30 to 40 minutes? Do you know what can happen to you in 10 minutes? Just Stupid. If you ever rely on someone else for your security you are not paying attention to what's happening in the world.
 

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What happens if you are at an ATM that is inside of one of those little glass cubbies and the bad guy is blocking the only exit and has a gun on you? If you think this is a stretch, it's happened to me and to one of my friends. Thankfully, when I produced my handgun instead of my wallet, the perp took off. My friend on the other hand, had to shoot the guy three times.

Mike
 

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You really should have had compassion and given him all your money since all he wanted was to buy a red tricycle like the one he never had as a poor wittle tyke.

Just kidding of course. Glad you got out okay. Ugly confrontations can come without warning, I know that for sure.

RIKA
 

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Exactly RIKA... and I use my personal experiences as a proven point when talking to anti-gun idiots. I've yet to find a single one who could say that not having a gun when I shot the rabid mutts would have been better. But they try...

Mike
 

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Sorry guys and gals I couldn't get past the 3rd statment on the link.
 

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In all my life, I have NEVER seen an anti-gunner with enough conviction in their beliefs to wear a sign out in public, 24/7, that they are unarmed and will not defend themselves from a criminal. Nor have I ever seen one who would put a notice on their home that it is a gun-free zone and burglaries will not be resisted.

On the other hand, I have seen countless examples of pro-gun people who have no qualms about letting the bad guys know about their potential future if they attempt harmful and felonious actions. The sad thing is that the anti-gunners don't even realize that it is the pro-gunners that are keeping their asses from being mowed over by the bad guys. The anti-gunners' main source of protection from predators is because they HIDE the fact that they really ARE anti-gunners. If the bad guys knew exactly who was unarmed and would hand over their wallet rather then fight back, what do you think they would do with that knowledge? Hell, wouldn't they just love to know which houses they enter would only result in the occupants leaving so they had free reign to take what they wanted with no opposition?

Suppose you are a bad guy, and one house has a sign on it saying "Protected by Smith & Wesson", and the other one says "I am an anti-gun pacifist, but I call 911". Which one are you going to kick the door in on?

Hah, the last time I had a heated discussion with an anti-gunner, she said she wanted to take all the guns away from everyone. I just smiled and ended the conversation with "Now just how is unarmed little ol' you going to take a gun away from me? You are probably going to need a gun yourself to do that, and if that is the case, what is the point you just made? Yup, sometimes in order to go good things, armed force is a necessity. In my case, the good thing that MY armed force will be doing is to keep you from illegally taking my gun. Are you prepared to kill me to get it? Tell me again why you want to disarm everyone....." ;)
 
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