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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question, should those with a series of behavior problems be allowed to own firearms?

For example those with pyshcotic behavior who have a long history of abusing children, animals and fantasies about killing innocent people?
 

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My first reaction would be to agree but it goes deeper than that. Who is going to define what those behavior problems are? Well, it has to be the judges, politicians and bureaucrats. If firearms disbarment was limited to abusing childten, animals and fantasies about killing innocent people then that would be okay. Problem is, once they get such legislation there is nothing to stop them to adding to the list whenever they want. Pretty soon opposition to homosexuality, displeasure with ********, politically incorrect speech, "crimes" against the environment and a host of other actions would be enough to prevent ownership of guns.

This is the kind of power that dictators can only dream of - of course its already here. We just haven't felt the power of the whip yet.

My .02

RIKA
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Rika- You bring up some very good points and that's where the problem lies.

Our system is such a mess, due to several factors.

And once the anti-gunners get an inch they want a freakin' mile next.

Plus certain individuals seem to fall through the cracks in the system and act as convienant time bombs for the anti's.

Right now the state of Illinois has passed legislature to identify children with "behavorial" problems so they can get "help".

Shades of 1984 and A Brave New World.
 

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Is our MELVIN a sociopath ... ?
Found this sociopath description online. It looks amazingly similiar to MELVIN'S behavior.

"Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally."

Well, MELVIN has NO apparent charm, but he THINKS he does.

"Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims."

This fits MELVIN.

"Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality"

This fits MELVIN.

"Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests."

This fits MELVIN.

"Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way."

This fits MELVIN.

"Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises."

This fits MELVIN.

"Incapacity for Love
While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender."

This fits MELVIN.

"Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal."

This fits MELVIN. If you count living on the edge of FANTASY.
Threatening to kick someone's ass maybe?

"Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to emphasize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the behavior as necessary for their (or the group's) own "good" and deny the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them."

This fits MELVIN.

"Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect."

This fits MELVIN like a glove.

"Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc."

This fits MELVIN.

"Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers."

This fits MELVIN.

"Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc."

If possible, I'm sure MELVIN would TRY it.

"Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health."

Fits MELVIN like a GLOVE.

"Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam."

Hey MELVIN, how are the new fingerprints and plastic surgery?

"Other Related Qualities:
Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them.

They're all twits, pos, fos, etc.

"Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them"

You mean something IS wrong with MELVIN?

"Authoritarian"

Definitely.

"Secretive"

Yes.

"Paranoid"

Is MELVIN paranoid ABOUT jj, or what?

"Often in difficulty with the law, seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired"

Like their own "columns"

How about their own forum?

"Conventional appearance"

Somewhat conventional, I would imagine.

"Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)"

This, sounds familiar.

"Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life"

MELVIN tries to, anyway.

"Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)"

Yes. As in, the people living on those places MELVIN has said he would attack, might not even be the original owners. Self-justification.

"Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim"

Yes again.

"Incapable of real human attachment to another"

Sounds like MELVIN.

"Unable to feel remorse or guilt"

NOTHING is ever the MELVIN'S fault.

"Extreme narcissism and grandiose behavior."

Yes.

"May state readily that their goal is to rule the world"

MELVIN'S post-apocalyptic world?
 

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Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
The problem here is where does the slippery slope begin? If you take the Second Amendment literally, as long as someone is considered to be in the class that is defined by "people" in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, then they are due EVERY right these documents afford them.

So, what is the definition of "people" in this context?
 

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Rich Z said:
The problem here is where does the slippery slope begin? If you take the Second Amendment literally, as long as someone is considered to be in the class that is defined by "people" in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, then they are due EVERY right these documents afford them.

So, what is the definition of "people" in this context?
The people whom bear arms are the members of the Federal Militia:

Federal Law, Title 10, Section 311

Sec. 311. - Militia: composition and classes


(a)

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b)

The classes of the militia are -

(1)

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2)

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia
 

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Title 32, Section 313

Sec. 313. - Appointments and enlistments: age limitations


(a)

To be eligible for original enlistment in the National Guard, a person must be at least 17 years of age and under 45, or under 64 years of age and a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps. To be eligible for reenlistment, a person must be under 64 years of age.

(b)

To be eligible for appointment as an officer of the National Guard, a person must -

(1)

be a citizen of the United States; and

(2)

be at least 18 years of age and under 64
 

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If one is to take the Constitution as the highest Law in the land, and keep to the supremacy clause, the later federal laws providing age limits, etc have no effect. To my knowledge, the only ones excluded from rights, in the Constitution are prisoners. When they are let free, they are supposed to have their rights again, automatically, no appeals, or paperwork or beaurocracy involved.

IMHO, if someone is too dangerous to keep and bear arms, then they've probably done something that would have gotten them hung in the 18th century, and probably should today.
 

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Yeah, that's my point. Any law in violation of the literal interpretation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is unconstitutional. Period. Federal Law does not take precedence over the above mentioned documents. Neither do Presidential Directives nor anything else the government can come up with. Those documents were designed to be constraints on the federal government (and in my opinion, state governments as well since they are part of the United States of America, and in doing so have agreed to support and defend those very same documents). As such unless those documents are discarded, changed, or amended, then laws contrary to them are null and void.

But the problem is might makes right. And who has the might? Who has the authority and the muscle to enforce the limits the Constitution imposes on the government? The courts? Especially, the Supreme Court? If those supposed authorities are government employees or get those positions through policial maneuvering, just how the heck is that going to succeed in protecting US?

Well, as we are seeing, it is not.
 

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Hey Rich, you're dead on, my friend.

Couple "might makes right" and the fact that, as Komrad Klinton proved, there are no checks and balances, with the judicial and executive branches making laws or ignoring them as they see fit, the lunatics are running the asylum. I'm not one of the paranoid types that thinks every politician is working for Satan or the NWO, but ENOUGH are, and they're the ones screaching the loudest and the squeaky wheel gets the grease. But I think we need to change the paradigm to "squeaky bug gets stepped on" and get these guys out of office, but not enough people will vote, mostly it's just the kommunists who vote nowadays.
 

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IMO, the initial "premise" or "root" problem is in the outlawing of objects, instead of actions.

Hitting my kid with a baseball bat or ax, is as just evil as hitting him with a bullet. But instead of just enforcing the one law about the "action" of hurting someone when it happens, our society knee-jerks itself into outlawing another object.

Dumbasses all around us.
 

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Rich Z said:
But the problem is might makes right. And who has the might? Who has the authority and the muscle to enforce the limits the Constitution imposes on the government? The courts? Especially, the Supreme Court? If those supposed authorities are government employees or get those positions through policial maneuvering, just how the heck is that going to succeed in protecting US?

Well, as we are seeing, it is not.

As exhibited by the Continental Congress, and the Revolution of 1776; absolute power rests with the people. If the Gov't f's up, it's our job to get rid of the traitors, and reinstitute the authority of the Constitution. Rebellion is a right!!
 
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