[Teufelhund]

Ok, in the spirit of unfvcking JD, how bought we put together the best kit for the lowest bucks. Since JD is the "Ultimate Cannibal Raider Backpack Survivalist" let's start on that end.

What are your best picks in the following catagories and list cost so we can keep track of this thing.

*Backpack, pretty important item, you aren't going to carry that gear under your arm.

*Shelter, your going to need a roof over your head while you try and make the Viet Cong green with envy over your system of underground shelters.

*Sleeping gear, we have all heard about taped up space blankets from the man who hasn't ever tried it, what are some real options?

*Water storage and purification, you ain't going to be raiding anything if you are on the porti-poti.

*Chow and Cooking Gear, we've heard about the Tang, peanut butter and your buddy menu, but know thats just BS, what kind and how much chow to carry?

*Field tools, If I hear about he superiority of the straight razor for general field task again, I'm probually going to cut my own rist with one, how bought some real options that won't tear the wallet off your @ss.

*First Aid and Hygene, There has got to be a better way than shooting anyone that gets a hangnail in the back of the head, what are going to pack in your personal kit?

*Clothing and Boots, we all know about pocket pistol holster inserts and "cargo pockets" that are going to carry everything from rifle bipods to .22 conversion units to extra mags and two auto pistols. What are some good real world options to consider?

Wayfinding Tools, we know JD can navigate like a fvcking migratory water foul crossed with an AWAC plane, but what are some good options for the mere mortal?

*Misc. Items, the little things.

On the other hand, maybe it would be best just to let him blunder along in fantasy land, so he can never makes a problem of himself should SHTF.

Teuf,

 

[RIKA]

Teuf, you've issued a challenge that will probably be the the most interesting we've had in a long time. How about setting a dollar amount? Something that a hamburger flipper who is smart enough to have a savings account can afford. Maybe $200 or $300, I don't know. Hell, the firearm will cost at least $150 for a cheapie if you get it legally. This requires some thought.

RIKA

 

[Half elf]

One of the "Little" items I carry religously is a "Sawyer Extraction Kit". This is very useful for insect bites, stings, ticks, splinters, and small thorns. I keep a blow-gun dart and 1/2 doz. wally-world bennadryl. I also keep a tube of super glue, spool of mental floss, 100' of 550 cord and a pack of tapestry needles in a ziplock baggie. For shelter I carry 2 ponchos, and a poncho liner along with a GI Hammock, between 550 cord and ponchos I am able to make a pretty good tent, and the line will keep me warm enough during 3 of the seasons in GA where I live now. I currently carry a Sweet Water Creek day pack for personal use and still keep my Army issue ruck loaded with L.T.D. BDUs, and old T-shirts, socks, and skivvies.

 

[mrostov]

Hmmm, how to do this as cheap as possible with durable, sustainable gear....

I just typed this off of the top of my head so I may have forgotten a few things.

*Backpack - I've picked up a couple of good Kelty external frames, older style buckles, etc, at yard sales and swap meets for $5 each.

*Shelter - In the tropics and in the summer, a hammock, but in the USA for most of the year, a tent or a tarp. A used nylon dome tent in need of repair can be had for about $8 to $10. A green tarp can be had from K-Mark for a few dollars.

*Sleeping gear - He can get some blankets and quilts, or maybe even a sleeping bag at Goodwill, yard sales, or a swap meet for just a few dollars. Get a good close cell foam mat.

*Water storage and purification - Hard to skimp in that area. Get a Katadyn or an MSR and get lots of extra Aqua Pure tabs.

*Chow and Cooking Gear

FOOD - Lentils are $0.60 per lb at Walmart. Ten pounds of lentils, 5 pounds of rice, and 3 pounds of sea salt plus a few extras like vitamin C tabs, tobasco sauce and bullion cubes will see you through at least a month or more, especially with a bit of supplemental hunting and fishing. You can larder up for less than $20.

COOKING GEAR - You can swipe a set of stainless steel eating utensils to cook and eat with from Denny's or some other eatery and you can cook in a #10 food/coffee can. Preferably put a wire bail handle on the coffee can. A pot or fry pan can be had from Goodwill for $5 each if you want to be fancy about it.

*Field tools Don't buy anything marked 'Made in China' because it will eventually break and probably not hold an edge at all.

Get one from each category

CHOPPING - Eastwing hatchets are IIRC about $25 at Home Depot, probably a lot cheaper used.

FIXED BLADE - I've bought used Camillius made Air Force survival knives for $8 but a new Buck fixed blade is $25 at Walmart.

MULTITOOL - A Victorinox Swiss Army knife can be had for $25 - $30, and a pair of slip joint pliers can be had for $5. Get a pair of pliers if you have a regular SAK. A Leatherman Wave is $50. I'd splurge and get a Victorinox Swiss Tool.

SAW - Also at Home depot you can get a small saw handle made by Stanley that takes sawzall blades plus some extra blades for metal, wood, and bone - $15 or so.

SHARPENING - Diamond hones at Walmart are $6, a Nicholson half round mill file and a Nicholson 4 in Hand files are $6 new at Home Depot. Those same files can often be had at pawn shops for $1 each. Get the hone and both types of files.

*First Aid and Hygene - Figure $25 to $50 for the basic stuff plus a book on how to use it (read ahead of time). Don't skip on this stuff.

Get pet meds for internal anti-biotics and anti-worming meds. Get lots of triple antibiotic ointment and flexible knuckle bandages. Get some sealed surgical suture packs. Tweezers are a must plus some sterile foam for irrigating wounds is also good. Other stuff like asprin is a given. Get some Pro-Vigil to stay awake in an emergency and get some liquid bandage for the small cuts. Moleskin or similar is also good for blisters.

*Clothing and Boots - Hiking boots and extra socks should be quality, whatever else can be Goodwill or personal preference from a loin cloth to a parka. Always pack a good pair of leather work gloves and a pair of cold weather gloves or mittens.

Wayfinding Tools - Walmart compass $5. Maps? gas station road map $2.50, topo map book for the state at Walmart, $15.

*Misc. Items, the little things

Sewing and repair gear is a must. Speedy stitch awl, needles, thread duct tape, Permatex black automotive super weatherstrip adhesive.

Fishing Gear - sky's the limit, at least bring some line, a few flys, lots of various sized hooks, and a gig head.

Mini-binos - Mine were $30 and they are 6x16mm autofocus and tiny.

Snare wire

Slingshot

Plant ID cards - they help sometimes.

Fire tools and lighters. I carry trimmed down magnesium fire tools, a Zippo, and I usually have a couple of matchbooks around. An extra squirt of ligher fluid and a Zippo starts a fire fast when you are cold.

Something to read and/or write - sanity preservation and you can keep valuable notes.

 

[andy]

like <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> I aint tried it ,and they AINT taped up. They are velcroed around the edges. They lasted me a month in the van, before I had to tape the FIRST tear, and if I'd had them on a hammok, on the ground sheet, they'd have made it thru the winter. As it was, they lasted just fine for 3 months, and that would suffice to get OUT of any place that was too cold. Get a sleeping bag wet, and it can be WORTHLESS, the FIRST night.

2 ponchos serve just FINE as a shelter, and have OTHER uses. Tents and bivvy sacks have NO other uses.

If u could READ, u'd KNOW I never said a word about putting any mag, other than the 22 AR unit's, in the thigh pockets. Nor the bipod. The bipod either goes into the pack or a belt case, depending upon the time of day and terrain. The 2 spare 223 mags go into the rear pants pockets, dumbass.

Smallest external frame pack is the best choice. Internal frames "glue" the pack to your back in hot weather, sucks big time.

 

[andy]

what u need wayfinding FOR? WHAT'S the big hurry, and why don't you KNOW where you're going, hmm?

 

[mrostov]

To not carry a sleeping bag just because it MIGHT get wet is nuts.

You just keep it from getting wet, and if you do you dry it out. Getting a sleeping bag fully soaked takes some doing.

Mylar can work if you have other shelter, like inside of vehicle. Out in the field they suck.

 

[andy]

med kit =vasoline, moleskin, 2 ace bandages, liquid bandage, iodine, injectable anti-diahrettic, serious sedatives, stimulants, painkillers, about 1/2 oz total. About 3 ozs of antibiotics. Syringe, sutures, a bit of gauze, tweezers, mirror. There's other stuff that can serve medical needs, like the water filter (sterile flushing of wounds) cookpot (same thing, sterilize tools) SOG mulitool (holds sutures, ) straight razor(shave around wounds, debridement) cord, wire, tape, bandana(binding wounds or injuries) candle, soap, bug dope, bug netting (keeping insects off of wounds) Just because u pusses THINK u know something doesn't make it so. It just makes u ignorant, that's all.

 

[mrostov]

Avoid injectables in the field. Lomotil is oral and one of the most powerful anti-diarrhea meds available.

Liquid bandage is no 100% substitute for adhesive bandages.

 

[mrostov]

Carrying mags in a rear pants pocket is extremely impractical with any pack of any meaningful capacity.

Carrying anything of any weight, including a Ciener kit, in the thigh pocket of one's cammies is not practical and will be shown to be not an option because of chaffing. Thigh pockets are for things like gloves, hat, etc.

 

[Teufelhund]

I don't intend on arguing every point with JD in a seperate thread. If he weren't so screwed up, I wouldn't have to hold him by the hand and ask you kind people for some help in my "JD SHTF Intervention". So instead of clogging this thread with responses, they are all going to go here as edits.

I remember very wellb JD, some of your first post on Hard Core Talk concerning your freezing your @ss off living in your van before you found a suger mama. I found it humorous since you were coming off as a self proclaimed expert know it all. So forgive me if I'm not all that impressed with your fond memories of van life. You want to freeze your @ss off thats fine with me LOL. Hell, maybe you aren't skilled enough to manage a sleeping bag in the backcountry, I don't know what your hang-up is LOL

Now concerning land navigation, maybe from your perspective you feel you can run blindly in any direction. From mine, I want to know the big scheme of things, I want to know known sources of water, hard top and dirt roads, habitations, mines, oil wells and the general lay of the land for many square miles. A single BLM map tells you many, many important things for several hundred square miles with topo Almost the whole state of WY will easily fit in a single zip lock bag. Even a Rand McNalley could be useful in getting the general lay of the land if you had the experience to fill in the blanks.

Suit yourself, if you think ignorance in bliss, it must make you happy.

Teuf,

 

[brass hammer]

any thing that is troop tested!

will hold up! USGI surplus will hold it's own[95%+ on the board know it]

first aid/hygene, is up in the air, as to a persons wants/unhoped for needs.
[i still have the mindset for carrying a couple of tampons for exit wounds]


i prefer the wood handled e-tool w/pick[heavy, yes! more so now, than then]
with blade edges filed sharp.

my little 'issue' f.a.kit is so crammed packed with stuff you couldn't stuffanother band-aid /wax-match in it [hell ,i think theres a shot of demerol in there still]

i liked the posts stating the 2 ponchos-1 liner-chute cord[Taj-Mahal, BOONIE-LITE]


but IF your dirt poor/budget mil-surp is the way to go !


when i get another computer tower and a nice digital camera


STAND-BY


thanks.

 

[Teufelhund]

Here is my take on the subject that may evolve some as I think about it more. I was kind of going at this from the angle a guy finds himself with nothing and needs to put together some kit with what limited cash he may have, or can get in a hurry selling stuff whatever. It also takes for granted that the one needing the kit is experienced enough to know what works, what doesn't and how to improvise.

You could look at it in two ways, first a long term kit that needs to be aquired cheap, but you have time to scrounge around and second finding yourself with little means and needing gear in a hurry.

My general thoughts are that military gear is very durable and many surplus stores offer the used gear pretty cheap, then maybe flesh it out with second hand stores and pawnshops. You see some pretty good backpacking gear in pawnshops here, it will likely be vintage, but thats not bad if you know what your looking for. I have also seen stoves, cooking gear and lw tents as well, I think hitch hikers get hard up for cash and pawn the stuff.

Backpack I would first look in pawn shops many, many, times I have seen pretty good backpacks rather cheap, especially frame packs. A vintage Kelty would be a good score and aren't uncommon, if you had the cash $30 will upgrade the hip belt and make a world of difference. My second choice would be a med or lg ALICE pack and frame, I see them used with hip belt ect. for $30 to $50 at surplus stores.

Shelter and Sleeping Gear I would go with a single GI poncho for shelter or a cheap composite tarp. I would make a big effort to be using natural or man made structures though, any kind of tent is very reflective when wet and noisy as well. The best would be a bivy on a sleeping bag, you can then crawl into any hole (under big rocks, basement crawl space whatever) and keep your bag dry and clean. I think a good sleeping bag is important, you need to be able to hole up comfortably. As long as you are warm you can wait it out, you get cold and then you need to eat and are moving around ect. I would improvise a bivy taking in accoun non-gortex fabrics are going to need ventalation. Staying warm and hidden and having a good book to keep you busy could be very important.

Water This a big deal, fortunetly there are some cheaper filters on the market and then there are the chemicals. In the mountains chems would be fine for me since the water is clear. On the plains you might find yourself (if you had a map to find them) drinking from stock tanks and "scaper" resvours, which will get pretty "thick". You will also find yourself digging in the bottom of seasonal creek beds that will yield a fair amount of water and also using the water from natural "tanks" which are depressions in rocks that hold water. Yes, I have done these things, like in real life, a peice of surgical tubing is also handy for getting to water in the bottom of a hole or between rocks ect. Concerning putting together a long term kit, of course you would want to buy the best filter you could. If scraping gear together in the short term Wal-Mart sells a filter unit built into a "sports bottle" that looks promising at $29, i'm going to test one and will report. You could make it last longer prefiltering the water into a wide mouth bottle though a coffee filter. For water storage I would come up with a wide mouth 1 perferable 2 quart bottle, they are cheap in household supplies in Wal-Mart. Then a couple 2 quart soft drink containers would work, I want one wide mouth for snow, pre-filtering ect.

Enough for now, I've got to do some other stuff.

Teuf,

 

[Garand]

It is absolutely amazing how cheap you can put your kit together if you just try and use your imagination. Next time your wandering through your local supermarket look for the type of food and condiments that would be of use for a backpacker. Check how many of these items have 5 to 7 years shelf life with the addition of as little as 1 or 2 ziplock bags. If you can only spend $20.00 a week, over the period of a year, you will have an amazing amount of kit. Pick up a good heat sealer if its in your budget then you can buy in bulk and build packages of meals for 2 or 3 people could have in one sitting.

 

[Aslan]

will hold up! USGI surplus will hold it's own[95%+ on the board know it]

first aid/hygene, is up in the air, as to a persons wants/unhoped for needs.
[i still have the mindset for carrying a couple of tampons for exit wounds]


i prefer the wood handled e-tool w/pick[heavy, yes! more so now, than then]
with blade edges filed sharp.

my little 'issue' f.a.kit is so crammed packed with stuff you couldn't stuffanother band-aid /wax-match in it [hell ,i think theres a shot of demerol in there still]

i liked the posts stating the 2 ponchos-1 liner-chute cord[Taj-Mahal, BOONIE-LITE]


but IF your dirt poor/budget mil-surp is the way to go !


when i get another computer tower and a nice digital camera


STAND-BY


thanks.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you plan on using feminine hygene products to treat wounds. Most of them contain anti-coagulants and would simply increase the likelihood of you bleeding out.

:devil:

 

[brass hammer]

brother!

if YOU GOT an exit wound the size of a $40 whores 'double-bit'fire AXE gash,
bleeding out of YOUR shoulder,i'd do MY DAMNDEST to stop that bleedin'[if i didn't have to 'run a gun' .

and I'D hope YOU would at least pack my[like wise] wound with my own week old skives.



thanks.

 

[Aslan]

I was more meaning don't start out planning to use such for wounds, as that could end up killing you. A t-shirt torn into strips would be better.

That's why I carry a number of bandages / dressings of the proper size, as well as a chest seal. Spend the $30-$40 and get a trauma kit that includes: a clotting agent - traumadex or quick clot, a medium dressing, a chest seal, gauze pads, and a few misc other items. Thhen pick up a set of large and small dreessings / bandages at a surplus store for about $2-$3

$40 is very little in cost compared to your life...And I carry enough for two seriously wounded people or four lightly wounded.


:devil:

 

[DJetAce]

This thread was worth 1000 gunkid post. In reality, he post a rational post everty 1 out of a thousand.

I'm lucky as I have a pretty fair amount of backpacking gear already. Except for the larger first aid kit and more advanced water filtration methods, I'm set.

And yes, gunkid, I do have a compass (several) and plenty of ways to find direction (not to mention start fires.) I have always believed in having at least two ways to do anything in the field, just in case.

While I'm nice and tosty, after finding a good place to stop (via the map), gunkid will be in the swamp still trying to figure out how to get out.