Arms Locker banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
who gives a crap? Irrelevant bs, in jello. when you shoot flesh and blood with the same loads, the results vary wildly from what they claim in Jello. so it's just a big jerkoff site.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,927 Posts
Gunkid again.....

Andy

Quite bluntly, jello determines a bullets expansion and kinetic energy transfer. Its not the point of jello to show exact wound characteristics. For example, there are 9mms loaded with 153 gr lapua bullets that generate as much kinetic energy as a .45. From a gel test, one can find that hardly any of this energy is transfered to the target for whatever reason. It is not the point of the jello to find the reason, just to show what is actually happening. And no, gel does not always benifit larger cartriges. A .17 HMR will have more effect on gel than a .22 LR. The same effect is noticeable on soft tissue. Gel is also a great way to show the expansion/fragmentation of a projectile under the worst conditions. Body tissue is firmer and slightly more prone to aid in expansion than jello.

Andy, as long as you continue ignoring data and keeping that closed mind of yours; you will continuously sound like a blithering asshole. Truly, there nare some arguments against gel testing, but not for the testing of expansion and energy exchange. The only invalidating claims are based on using gel to determine penetration.

BTW I agree against using gel for penetration testing. I once gelled a 7mm RUM and determined that after running nearly an entire fireing lanes worth of gel that a 7mm would never penetrate through 2 elephants standing in a row, like the gel was suggesting. On a simpler and smaller scale, a .380 auto goes about a foot into jello @ 25 yrds. Yet, a bottle of water can catch it with ease. Yes, I've done that to, and yes I thought it was hillarious that I could catch bullets at short range with a bottle of Zepherhills.

So ya, gel testing is good for some things and bad for others, but Andy, for one time back up your statement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,783 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
andy said:
who gives a crap? Irrelevant bs, in jello. when you shoot flesh and blood with the same loads, the results vary wildly from what they claim in Jello. so it's just a big jerkoff site.
Your position on this was already known. You can fuck off now. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,783 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
DaRkWoLf said:
Andy

Quite bluntly, jello determines a bullets expansion and kinetic energy transfer. Its not the point of jello to show exact wound characteristics. For example, there are 9mms loaded with 153 gr lapua bullets that generate as much kinetic energy as a .45. From a gel test, one can find that hardly any of this energy is transfered to the target for whatever reason. It is not the point of the jello to find the reason, just to show what is actually happening. And no, gel does not always benifit larger cartriges. A .17 HMR will have more effect on gel than a .22 LR. The same effect is noticeable on soft tissue. Gel is also a great way to show the expansion/fragmentation of a projectile under the worst conditions. Body tissue is firmer and slightly more prone to aid in expansion than jello.

Andy, as long as you continue ignoring data and keeping that closed mind of yours; you will continuously sound like a blithering asshole. Truly, there nare some arguments against gel testing, but not for the testing of expansion and energy exchange. The only invalidating claims are based on using gel to determine penetration.

BTW I agree against using gel for penetration testing. I once gelled a 7mm RUM and determined that after running nearly an entire fireing lanes worth of gel that a 7mm would never penetrate through 2 elephants standing in a row, like the gel was suggesting. On a simpler and smaller scale, a .380 auto goes about a foot into jello @ 25 yrds. Yet, a bottle of water can catch it with ease. Yes, I've done that to, and yes I thought it was hillarious that I could catch bullets at short range with a bottle of Zepherhills.

So ya, gel testing is good for some things and bad for others, but Andy, for one time back up your statement.
In at least one small database (about 40 shootings, collected by Gene Wolberg, Senior Firearms Criminologist at the San Diego Police Department Crime Laboratory), 147 grain 9mm hollowpoints were matching pretty much (3% variation in penetration depth) exactly between gelatin and 2 legged targets. More datapoints are necessary, IMO, to determine how velocity, momentum and frontal area affect the performance of a bullet on flesh as compared to gelatin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
andy said:
who gives a crap? Irrelevant bs, in jello. when you shoot flesh and blood with the same loads, the results vary wildly from what they claim in Jello. so it's just a big jerkoff site.

Well you're just full of shit.

Ballistic Gelatin provides for a consistant and repeatable testing medium in which the results are similar to those found in actual usage.

Gelatin testing was first started as a means to find a medium that could closely replicate the damage done to actual human tissue, as observed by Dr. Fackler, who was a combat surgeon in Vietnam. And while gelatin is specifically a test medium, and for consistancy's sake doesn't have bones and different types of tissue, the gelatin formula was refined until it was able to replicate (with reasonable scientific accuracy) the wound damage observed in humans, both those who survived their wounds and those who didn't. And gelatin testing *continues* to be examined side-by-side with actual, real-world shootings, to make sure that the effects predicted by the gelatin testing are acurate compared to the real thing. To date, properly calibrated ballistic gelatin has been a remarkably good model.

It seems that only hacks like you claim that ballistic gelatin is no good, the sort of hacks who make wild claims about their pet ammuntion then claim ballistic gelatin can't be used to show how well it performs.

Too bad for you that ballistic gelatin is proven.

I haven't seen anything published by you in the IWBA journals, why is that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,890 Posts
Well, CowardKids got a point, it ain't flesh and blood. Why use gelatin when we have all these ****** dope pushers sucking off the government tit, either in the ass-slam or out taking advantage of the paranoid section of society. Hell we can do penetration tests like the Nazis did with the jews. We can line up the dope pushers front to back and see how many each load goes through. See? Real-world data on real flesh and blood, and saving the taxpayers BILLIONS each year to boot!
:dgrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
Magnum, dope pushers are a protected species who must be coddled and 'rehabilitated' so they can get with their hos and make little dope pushers and collect SSI. If we can't shoot 'em lets just send them to Mexican prisons or exile them to the Sudan -- along with the politicians who love them so much.

(btw, I agree with your first choice)

RIKA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,593 Posts
Magnum, I like the way you think. Erika quit being such a girl!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,648 Posts
Andy doesn't understand the value of a consistent medium to use to measure performance.

He hasn't figured out the value of eliminating unknowns when evaluating the performance of a bullet.

He beleives that ancedotal evidence is hard science.

He also quotes Fackler when it is convenient and dismisses him when that, too is convenient.

He makes so much crap up, he has no choice but to poo poo gelatin. To do otherwise would require him to acknowledge that he is wrong about a number of things.

:devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
Garand said:
Erika quit being such a girl!!!!!
Can't help it; I was born that way. Besides Mexican prisons are nice places run by compassionate caring people and the Sudan is a great place where you can get a wonderful sun tan working in the fields with the other slaves.

RIKA :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,593 Posts
:roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1:
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top