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Discussion Starter #1
since the shotgun is just for indoor use, by someone who won't PRACTICE enough to be good with a rifle or pistol, might as well be TAME to handle, so .22 rifle practice will transfer into real ABILITY with the 9mm carbine. 90 gr jhp's are 1700 fps in a 16" 9mm carbine barrel, 600 ft lbs. 9 is almost always welcome at indoor ranges, .22 rifle certainly ALWAYS is. 30 Carbine probably isn't, 12 ga usually isnt, and sks almost never is. 6.7 lb carbine is easily handled with one hand, even by petite women. DEFINITELY not true of pump 12. That's because they are often HOLDING an infant, comforting a child, have to use a light, phone, etc, while looking for or holding an intruder for the cops, and so on, dumbass.

9mm carbine has 3x the power of your silly Makarov pistol, and at least TWICE the "power" of your 4" .38 revolver.
 

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no u CAN'T "just point' the shotgun, get good hits.

the typical range of self defense is 10ft or less, toe to toe. That means it's 7 ft from the muzzle of the 20" barreled shogun, and that means that the pattern will be at MOST 3" wide,with small shot, and probably only 1.5" wide with 00 buck. So you DO have to aim it, JUST as you would a rifle.
 

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First. the 9mm carbine is not a shotgun, won't hit like a shotgun, start a carbine thread in rifles if you want to discuss this.

Second NO ONE but GoonKid here says you don't have to make some effort to ain a shotgun. The shotgun pattern increases the chances of hitting moving targets while HUNTING. For defensive use, it has to be aimed, the reason the shotgun is so popular in close quarters is NOT that it can be used without aiming, it's because the damn thing does so much damage and makes such a hellacious wound. The shotgun has such a reputation for seriously blowing people apart, that even stupid criminals who won't back down in the face of a pistol, or even a rifle, will usually pee their pants and meekly surrender to a shotgun. And if he doesn't surrender, you blow his guts all over the yard, and his buddies give up.

'Nuff said.
 

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The 9mm carbine is not better than a shotgun at close range, but it is better than a 11 inch CAR, the losers gun, by far. MUCH less blast, flash, very cheep practice ammo, even smaller weapon. And about the same effective range if useing HP or SP. The 9mm is MORE effective if the pos CAR uses FMJ.
 

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andy said:
no u CAN'T "just point' the shotgun, get good hits. the typical range of self defense is 10ft or less, toe to toe. That means it's 7 ft from the muzzle of the 20" barreled shogun, and that means that the pattern will be at MOST 3" wide,with small shot, and probably only 1.5" wide with 00 buck. So you DO have to aim it, JUST as you would a rifle.
Yes you can point a shotgun at a target ten feet away and get a good hit.

Question: What's the difference between pointing a carbine and pointing a shotgun to hit a target only ten feet away?

Answer: The shotgun's pattern is tennisball sized at ten feet, compared to the .36 or .45 inch diameter of the carbines bullet. So, if anything the shotgun should be easier with which to hit.

Obvious Answer: Any "st#pe" should be able to point and hit at ten feet. After all, didn't you say that a handgun could be point-shot at ten feet?
 

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Well, he's posted this very thing before on other forums, right down to the title, and still gets the same responses back, but he can't figure out that his premise is wrong...

But hey, he NEVER repeats anything in his posts...

:devil:
 

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NEVER? Well hardly ever!
 

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So gunkid, actually how many rds of 12 gauge have you sent down range so far this year??
 

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Discussion Starter #9
with a LOT of practice, the pistol can hit at 10 ft, from EYE level, with both hands on it. Point shooting with the shotgun, like the typical LAME thinks it can be done,is from the hip, pointing north, hitting BOTH east and west.
 

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You obviously don't have the kahounas to answer my question, do you gunkid?
 

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"thinking man"!
 

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with a LOT of practice, the pistol can hit at 10 ft, from EYE level, with both hands on it. Point shooting with the shotgun, like the typical LAME thinks it can be done,is from the hip, pointing north, hitting BOTH east and west.
WTF???
 

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since the shotgun is just for indoor use, by someone who won't PRACTICE enough to be good with a rifle or pistol...
I like 9mm carbines, own 9mm carbines, and praise 9mm carbines more than most people. But they're not some magic wand. Also while a shotgun isn't my personal choice, that doesn't mean it isn't hugely capable.

Clint Smith recommends the shotgun, going so far as to say "a shotgun is an expert's weapon, not a beginner's weapon".

Another example (and someone you've said you wanted as the head of the NRA) is James Yeager. His words: "My pick for home defense is a Remington 870 shotgun, with full-power buckshot. I've got slugs in the sidesaddle. And I can't think of anything in the parameters of my house that would be more lethal and more able to protect me and my family."

When asked what three guns he would choose if he could only have three, Jerry Miculek answered a .357 revolver, a .22LR rifle, and a 12-gauge shotgun.


So in your mind, Clint Smith, James Yeager and Jerry Miculek are categorized as "not good with a rifle or pistol"...?
 
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