Firearm Forums - Arms Locker banner
81 - 98 of 98 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,640 Posts
Never really looked at the mechanics of this drill before, but if there are three threats, it's a very bad idea to shoot the first one six times (including two to the head) before moving on to threats number two and three. Basically, if six hits are truly necessary (as done on target #1), why only put two hits on #2 before moving on to #3; and if two hits are adequate, why put six hits on #1 before moving on to #2?
Because he has no clue whatsoever about reality. Just just made up scenarios in his head where he always comes out the winner. Like when you were a kid and were shooting the "Bad Guy's".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
You're a bad influence. I ordered one of those today.
Glad to be of help, I replaced the Tasco Red Dot with a Burris Fast Fire 3 which has a lower profile than the Tasco. Love it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
Excellent video, in a time ruled by people that are scared of "black, fully semi automatic" things like the AR, it is nice to have an alternative. Personally I have no time for the "issue" stock pouch. During the 3 gun matchers that I have attended in the last couple of years I have found the one from Olongapoout Outfitters Equipment & Gear - Olongapo Outfitters far superior and quite effective.

I have also put in the past few years a large number of cast lead bullets through my M1, with great success. Unfortunately no UTube video makers have chosen to do a ballistic evaluation of this subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,471 Posts
Thanks. I probably should make out some scripted notes ahead of time instead of just ad-libbing. Didn’t intend to talk so mean about the “uncle Merle” in most people’s lives…
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
2,552 Posts
Thanks. I probably should make out some scripted notes ahead of time instead of just ad-libbing. Didn’t intend to talk so mean about the “uncle Merle” in most people’s lives…
Well there's a few things to consider there. I haven't followed the powders used in the M1 Carbine. But sometimes I wonder if some lots had ball powder formulated more for the Pacific Islands temps vs. What was common in Europe or Korean Winters.
And logistics being what they are ammo formulated for tropical heat didn't reach the troops until the 2nd World War ended maybe?
I don't know for sure but just a wild guess.

Or some people just plain missed,
And maybe several North Koreans and Red Chinese were on "the Pipe of Courage" before the battle? That was not uncommon in the Asian theatres of combat in either Korea or Vietnam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,471 Posts
…But sometimes I wonder if some lots had ball powder formulated more for the Pacific Islands temps vs. What was common in Europe or Korean Winters.

And logistics being what they are ammo formulated for tropical heat didn't reach the troops until the 2nd World War ended maybe?..
Could well be, but even at half-power it’d still be .357 magnum levels, and I can’t see .357 magnum fmj bouncing off of coats either. The fact that the anecdotes all seem to talk about ‘multiple hits’ being needed makes me assume the guns were cycling okay, which means (especially in winter conditions) that the ammo couldn’t have been much underpowered.

I always chalked those stories up to mass GI lunacy, much like the old "if you shoot him in the hand with a 1911, it'll rip his arm off" kind of stuff that used to be prevalent years ago.


I don’t know if Korean soldiers were cranked up on drugs the way the Japanese soldiers in WW2 definitely were. They may well have been; never heard one way or the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
According to "Hatchers Notebook" (Page 177) "a charge of 12.4 grains of Hercules Carbine Powder, called by the Army Hercules Flake, or by a suitable charge of Western Cartridge Company's Ball Powder".
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Administrator
Joined
·
2,552 Posts
I always chalked those stories up to mass GI lunacy, much like the old "if you shoot him in the hand with a 1911, it'll rip his arm off" kind of stuff that used to be prevalent years ago.
I agree and I'm also reminded of the quote from the author and Green Beret vet Jim Morris on the inside cover of his book War Story :
The difference between a war story and a fairy tale is- A Fariy Tale starts with "Once Upon A Time". & A War Story starts with "Listen Up This Ain't No Crap!"😁
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
2,655 Posts
Could well be, but even at half-power it’d still be .357 magnum levels, and I can’t see .357 magnum fmj bouncing off of coats either. The fact that the anecdotes all seem to talk about ‘multiple hits’ being needed makes me assume the guns were cycling okay, which means (especially in winter conditions) that the ammo couldn’t have been much underpowered.

I always chalked those stories up to mass GI lunacy, much like the old "if you shoot him in the hand with a 1911, it'll rip his arm off" kind of stuff that used to be prevalent years ago.


I don’t know if Korean soldiers were cranked up on drugs the way the Japanese soldiers in WW2 definitely were. They may well have been; never heard one way or the other.
I had also read or heard - don't remember - that the Koreans wore pretty bulky overcoats. Being typically slender built, it is possible a lot of "hits" hit nothing but coat.

But that could be just as much bs as anything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
I had also read or heard - don't remember - that the Koreans wore pretty bulky overcoats. Being typically slender built, it is possible a lot of "hits" hit nothing but coat.

But that could be just as much bs as anything else.
Thick coats, cold weather, bad marksmanship, drugs, possible contributing factors, plus many more other things. It was an acknowledged fact that in Korea, most M2 Carbines were fired full automatic, by soldiers that had not been in the service for long and were inexperienced in controlled fire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Administrator
Joined
·
2,552 Posts
Fog of war also comes to mind.
Some people just panicked while some didn't.
I've seen both on public, private and military ranges.
I can imagine what it could be like in combat.
Also, while I could dispute his final conclusions.
Didn't S.L.A. Marshall state that the incidence of "spray and pray" was pretty high?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,471 Posts
...I have also put in the past few years a large number of cast lead bullets through my M1, with great success...
No issues with gunk building up in the gas port from non-jacketed bullets? (I assume not or you’d have said so.) Other than rimfire stuff in ar conversion kits I've never used non-jacketed bullets in a gas-ported rifle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
While a lot of people have objected to the results that SLA Marshall generated, I have no idea what "irons in the fire" they had. All you had to do was watch a few documentaries on the Korean War to see that "spray & pray" was not a 1 time event. A member on this board about 20 some odd years ago who was in Korea, who carried an M2 Carbine also carried 14x 30 round mags on night patrol.

I have read in a couple of publications that cast lead bullets preform will in the M1 Carbine without leading. I have put at least 2,000 cast lead bullets down range with mine. I've got another 900 reloaded rds to use before I can start to use powder coated bullets, probably next summer. I'm anxious to see what the results are there. I've got at least 4 more matches in the next month so I know I'm not going to get to it until at least spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
yep, that be him. He loved Melvin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,839 Posts
Well I spent the afternoon getting my kit together for the 2 gun match this weekend. My main match rifle will be my M1 Carbine with a Series '70 in .45 acp as my handgun. My backup guns will be my M1 Garand and a satin nickle finished Colt Combat Commander in .45 acp. I was surpised that when I grabbed my M1 Carbine ammo with cast lead bullets, they are all powder coated. So I'll get to try the powder coated ammo sooner than I expected. I had completely forgotten that I loaded some of this.
 
81 - 98 of 98 Posts
Top