Firearm Forums - Arms Locker banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've never had any desire for one. 30 odd years ago, Jeff Cooper said to :"never buy anything in .32", and he was RIGHT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
They didn't make 32's the size of the KelTec 30 years ago when you could legally own one. This is 2004, not 1974. Times have changed so get with the program.

RIKA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,958 Posts
Back in the mid '70's I owned a Llama .32 automatic. It was a quite nice last chance defense handgun. Accurate out to 20 yds for plinking also. Unfortunately in the '70's the variety of ammunition was extremely limited, unlike today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,176 Posts
From 1991 until 2002, I carried a Beretta 21A in my pocket; which is a gun you frequently espouse. Great little gun when I bought it:

- small enough to pocket carry unobtrusively,
- DA, which meant no need to dink with the safety prior to firing (which is important as I carried it in my left-hand pocket),
- fed Stingers and any plated hi-velocity or hyper-velocity ammo fine


Couple years ago, I replaced it in my pocket with a P32. The only negative in doing so was ammo cost. Other than that, it's"

- lighter,
- thinner,
- holds the same number of rounds, and
- holds a larger, more powerful round.

I understand the idea of the .22's price letting you practice enough to get 'good' with it, but I am good enough for this type of gun's use. Neither the P32 or the 21A is a match gun; they're "shoot & scoot" guns, meant as a close-range surprise.

A .22's easier to suppress, but as my 21A wasn't suppressed, it's not an issue for the P32, either.

Again, the ONLY "downside" is ammo cost, and as I only shoot this particular gun probably one or two hundred rounds a year, that's not that big a concern.

Size, weight, thickness, power; the P32 is measurably better in all these categories.

For a non-suppressed, small defensive pocket pistol, I'd be curious to hear what advantages the 21A has over the P32, in a head-to-head comparison. Because the P32 has the four measurable, objective advantages listed above, and I'd be curious to see how the 21A off-sets those somehow.

And as I said, I still own (and actually still like) the 21A; so I'm not bashing it. It's just that when I stepped back & compared their characteristics side-by-side, the P32 was even better in four categories, and tied in the fifth (capacity). After that, as much as I like the 21A, it would be intellectually dishonest of me to proclaim the 21A as the "better" of the two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,176 Posts
John in AR said:
For a non-suppressed, small defensive pocket pistol, I'd be curious to hear what advantages the 21A has over the P32, in a head-to-head comparison. Because the P32 has the four measurable, objective advantages listed above, and I'd be curious to see how the 21A off-sets those somehow.
I figured I'd give this a day or so, and see what kind of contradiction I'd get. It's been 2 1/2 days, and no response at all.

It's a simple question asking for the "why" of an opinion that's so often espoused here; namely the supremacy of one 'niche' gun (the 21A) and the lambasting of another gun (the P32) in the same 'niche'.

Did a quick check, and it turns out, Andy, that in the intervening time since I asked this question, you've started 28 new threads; no telling how many posts in that time.

This is:
- a simple, direct question,
- in a thread you started,
- directly related to the topic you stated, (.32's)
- on the first page of the thread,
-by only the fourth respondent in the thread,

and you don't respond.


Gotta say, it makes me suspect there is no response, and if no response, no objective basis for your oft-heard pronouncements about the ".22 vs .32" pocket gun issue.

Like the lawyer said, "If a man doesn't want to state the answer, he must not like the answer."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The M21 offers the OTHER advantages, that's why. Suppression, kit gun accuracy, AND does the .32's job even "better". 200 rds aint even 10% of what you need to be able to RELIABLY empty the mag into a guy's face, at 6 ft, in 1.5 second, with the weak hand doing the shooting. Put 2000 rds a year thru a P-32, and you'd need a new gun every year, and you'll have spent $600 on ammo. Since all you are doing is BLUFFING, why bother with anything but the lower cost M21?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,176 Posts
andy said:
The M21 offers the OTHER advantages, that's why. Suppression, kit gun accuracy,
I specifically asked about an unsuppressed pocket gun (i.e., a pocket carry gun 'now', not post-shtf), but the 21A may well be more intrinsically accurate, with its fixed barrel. I'll not argue with that.


andy said:
AND does the .32's job even "better".
How, exactly? If power, size, weight, and bulk aren't the criteria for measuring a pocket pistol, what is?


andy said:
200 rds aint even 10% of what you need to be able to RELIABLY empty the mag into a guy's face, at 6 ft, in 1.5 second, with the weak hand doing the shooting.
"Emptying" the P32 is eight rounds, as is emptying the 21A. IIRC, you said 4 hits in .75 second at contact distance is impossible. (The "eyeball" thread; I could be slightly off on the times).

If 4 shots in .75 second is impossible at contact distance, how can 8 shots in 1.5 second at 6 feet be the minimum acceptable standard...? Doesn't wash.


andy said:
Put 2000 rds a year thru a P-32, and you'd need a new gun every year, and you'll have spent $600 on ammo.
A true statement, but based on the faulty premise above.


andy said:
Since all you are doing is BLUFFING, why bother with anything but the lower cost M21?
I have never been able to understand the "only bluffing" idea you mention so often, nor do I believe you believe it yourself. Easily demonstrated, actually. If you DO believe the little pocket gun's just a bluff, you'd have no problem with carrying it empty. It's just as good a bluff when empty, so absolutely no function would be lost. So either it IS just a bluff, which means carrying it empty is as good as carrying it loaded, or it's not just a bluff.

Are you saying empty carry is as good as loaded carry?

The answer to that is the same as the answer to: "Is it really just a bluff?".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,176 Posts
The actual post I was referrring to:

andy said:
I dont give a **** WHAT you fire, *****, u CAN'T get 4 hits in the eyeball, in 3/4 second. NOBODY can.
Your words, not mine. Four contact-distance hits in .75 second is impossible; yet 8 hits in 1.5 second at six feet, weak-handed, no less is what you say is needed...

Like I said, doesn't wash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,690 Posts
John in AR said:
I figured I'd give this a day or so, and see what kind of contradiction I'd get. It's been 2 1/2 days, and no response at all.
John, I didn't respond because you said it well enough that I couldn't think of anything important to add.

The only fact that I would emphasize is the increased ignition and feed reliability that a centerfire cartridge, like the .32 ACP, offers over the .22LR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
What ever yo do don't be scrimpin on cheap steel like some do. Seen to much potmetal break up ina man's hand.

An all kind o stuff get in a pocket an can get a fuzzed up in the barrel.

32's of for summer but I like a good little .38 for cold weather wear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
Mustafa Jones said:
An all kind o stuff get in a pocket an can get a fuzzed up in the barrel.
Yep. Be sure to keep the pocket you carry the gun in clean. Pull out your pc with a kleenex stuck to the end and the BG might think you were surrendering. :D

RIKA
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top