"US Property" No. 4 1/3 (F) FTR

5111 Views 24 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Magnum88C, Aug 13, 2004

Teufelhund

Discussion Starter · Aug 8, 2004

A windy way of describing a Savage manufactured No.4 MKI lend/lease rifle that later got arsonal converted to a MKII. When I got it, it looked about new with all matching parts and a bright shiney bore.

This is the rifle I shoot in our military bolt gun matches, which is basically the Army EIC match with a couple special "legs", such as the "Lord Calvert Match", bonus points to anyone who knows what that is LOL

I had tried every militry bolt gun avaliable and nothing comes close to the SMLE for speed and "shootability". The bandolers are Aussie and the ammo is South African, .303 ammo is one of those things you got to stock up on when you can. The South African is some great ammo that seems to pop up from time to time.

The antelope horn walked in front of my .22 Hornet many,many moons ago LOL

Teuf,

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DJetAce

· #2 · Aug 8, 2004

I've always felt the Enfield .303 is the best bolt service rifle ever made. I only wish it had be in a rimless cartridge. Sure would made those stippers much simpler to load (that is, not having to worry about the rims overlapping.)

It was way ahead of the just ever other bolt gun.

Teufelhund

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 8, 2004

I agree, shooting the No.4 1/3 in EIC matches just re-enforced that. The rimmed cartridge isn't really a problem other than scarcity as long as you load you stripper clips right. One of the things that makes it shootable is the "moderate" recoil and thats a function of .303 ballistics.

I have shot all the US bolt action service rifles in the EIC matches 1903, 1903A3, US1917, but the stout .30-06 recoil and having to make twice as many stripper clip reloads just kills you. The Mosin/Nagant is slow and beats the [email protected] out of you and the sights on K98's plain suck. I did rather well with my Swede, the 6.5X55 is pleasent and accurate and the sqaure blade and rear sight notch are by far the best of the Mauser sights, but it still only a 5 shooter. The EIC match runs in 5 to 10 round strings on targets of limited exposure and the light recoil and 10 round mag, combined with the nice short bolt throw makes all the difference in the world.

Teuf,

Garand

· #4 · Aug 8, 2004

I've owned 6 different Lee Enfield #4 Mk1's during the last 30 years. I like to put at least a minimum of 100 rds a year down range with it, to keep myself "honest" regarding my marksmanship. I have managed to find about 60 stripper clips and use the current British Nylon 5.56mm bandoleers to carry them. If I remember correctly Lord Calvert was a British Major, Special Ops during the Second World War and organized the first jungle warfare school in Malaysia. I'm currently between 6.5x55mm's. I'm currently looking for a Remington M700 in that caliber.

Teufelhund

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 8, 2004

If you need more stripper clips Garand thats not a problem, I could help you out, they will be the rough parkerized Brit issue. My favorite stripper clips are the black painted Aussie issue, they are very fast for the speed reloads. A company called Northridge International, advertises in Shotgun News, sells the nice canvas bandolers, which also work great for 7.62 ammo on Mauser stripper clips for out Scout Rifles. The Brit stripper clips work fine they just need to be polished up inside for speed.

"Lord Calvert" (like the whiskey LOL) wasn't his real name, but he was a British Lord and considered the "Father of British Marksmanship"("Musketry" for the Limeys). I didn't put in his real name because I was hoping some dedicated rifleman and student of such things would know who I was talking about.

Now it's trivia time, if anyone wants to play.

Who was this Lord and what where the circumstances surounding his "fame"?

Garand will probually get this right away now LOL, so if you know it Garand PM me.

Teuf,

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Hard Ball

· #6 · Aug 8, 2004

IIRC he developrd the "ten rounds taoid" technique of maximum speed aimed rapid fire with the SMLE. He did this to compenste fpt the small number of machineguns in Btotish infantry unid before WW1,
It woeked too. THe Germans were amazed at the volume of fire from British Infantry battalions in 1914. :madeuce:

Teufelhund

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 8, 2004

Part credit for Hard Ball, good job.

British WWI rifle prowlness was the result of his experiences and influence, but it goes back farther than that.

Teuf,

andy

· #8 · Aug 9, 2004

ancient history,man. do you use a webley at IDPA matches? then why bother with bolt gun bs?

TODD 3465

· #9 · Aug 9, 2004

Nice rifle I have a No.4 MkI. Very accurate rifles, even with ball or plain jane commercial ammo.

Magnum88C

· #10 · Aug 9, 2004

Teuf, your description ""US Property" No. 4 1/3 (F) FTR " would indicate a No.4 Mk1 FTRed to Mk3, not Mk2 standards, would it not?.

The No4 Enfields are, quite frankly, the best bolt action battle rifles ever fielded. A lot of it has to do with the sights. The action is smoother than any other battle rifle I've used, and the Enfields are very accurate for a battle rifle. First class rifles all around.

Teufelhund

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 10, 2004

Good question, Garnad probually knows better than me

Magnum88C said:
Teuf, your description ""US Property" No. 4 1/3 (F) FTR " would indicate a No.4 Mk1 FTRed to Mk3, not Mk2 standards, would it not?.

The No4 Enfields are, quite frankly, the best bolt action battle rifles ever fielded. A lot of it has to do with the sights. The action is smoother than any other battle rifle I've used, and the Enfields are very accurate for a battle rifle. First class rifles all around.

I was under the impression that the 1/3 indicates a MKII conversion done on a MKI and that the MKII indicates original MKII manufacture. I don't know what a MKIII is.

Teuf,

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Garand

· #12 · Aug 10, 2004

The adoption date of the No. 4 Mk1/3 was 31 March 1949 and the change in pattern indicated that it was a Mk1* converted to Mk 2 pattern.

The savage factory produced over 1.2 million rifles by 1944. Number 4 Mk1* rifles made at the Savage factory can be identified by the letter "C" in the serial number (for example 12C1234).

brass hammer

· #13 · Aug 10, 2004

excellent thread/posts!

great readin'

i had a mark2?or 3? sporter, years ago , and WHAT A DEERSLAYER with norma s.p. 170gr? ungodly damage with neck shots!

truly impressive results.

thanks.

RIKA

· #14 · Aug 10, 2004

*sigh* I know only one man who has an Enfield and its heavily sporterized. He wants to sell it but I don't want it. Maybe I'll find a good one yet. Want to buy at gunshow if possible so I can personally examine it.

RIKA

Teufelhund

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 10, 2004

Garand is the man,

I'm more of a shooter type than collector and didn't get into SMLE's till late in life.

About 8 years ago or so when the bolt rifles started coming back and everyone was buying them, we decided we where going to use them. Not in a slowfire High power style match but in a "heat em' up till you can't touch em, stripper clips a flying" battle rattle.

So we adopted a form of the Army EIC match and added some other "leg" special matches to fill out a days shooting. We where already doing 4 EIC's a year with "any semi-auto military rifle" and had the range, so decided to make it a two day event, with any semi-auto on Sat and any military bolt on Sun. Talk about a good time we usually camp on the rifle range and have a big come as you are cook-out, do some more shooting ect. first class rifleman get together.

Oh boy and what fun, you find out right away why they have all that wood on em' LOL The intresting thind that happened is that the scores of the good shooters aren't much lower with bolt guns than semi-autos. There is much more going on when engaging targets at speed, than simply running a bolt, we learned right away how to do them, while running the bolt.

After sifting though just about every bolt action rifle avaliable in my search for match wins ( I have gone 9 over-all wins in a row, Hoo-ya), I'm a confirmed Enfield groupie.

Hang in there Rika, you get to any of the big gun shows you will find a good No.4 MKI, when you do hollar, I have bandoleers and stripper clips ect.

Teuf,

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Magnum88C

· #16 · Aug 11, 2004

Garand, thanks for the clarification. Guess I need to get a collector's book, any tips on good ones?

RIKA, I'm serious, go to BDL Ltd take a gander at what he's got and give him a call. I've got 4 of his rifles, and a whole sh*tload of accessories from him., and from day one, his rifles were EXACTLY as he described them. If you cruise the C&R forums, you'll find his reputation is universally good. He is both a collector and the armorer, he goes to Canada personally, and picks lots of rifles to bring back, so he's got lots of Long Branches (can't go wrong with those Canadian rifles, BTW). He's a tad pricey compared to a gun show, but worth every penny.

BTW, for size comparison, the No 4 Mk1* is 44.25" from butt to muzzle, 52.25" from butt to tip of bayonet. They aren't short, however length-of-pull is fairly short compared to more modern rifles. That, and the weight-forward balace makes them very steady shooters and as long as the barrel is in good condition, they'll shoot more accurately than their sights allow for.

One warning, once you work the bolt once, you'll be spoiled on just about every other bolt action (60 degree bolt throw and slicker than a prom queen's thighs).

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Garand

· #17 · Aug 11, 2004

Actually i don't have that many pubs on the Enfield. There was a time about 40-45 years you weren't considered to be a Canadian if you didn't have a .303 in either the closet or the attic! How the world has gone down hill, sigh !!!

Magnum88C

· #18 · Aug 11, 2004

That's ok, I'm happily hoarding those poor, unwanted, orphaned Long Branches. . .

Garand

· #19 · Aug 11, 2004

You HORRIBLE PERSON YOU!! I only have a Fazakerley!

SatCong

· #20 · Aug 11, 2004

Rika,
Centerfire is running a sale on a couple of enfield models, as of 2 weeks ago.
SatCong

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