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Discussion Starter #1
Can somebody please concisely list what the claims Hard Rock made again?

Vaguely:

1) Something about .308 ammunition that I completely missed.

2) Something about hitting targets from the water at... 75 yards? Does "from the water" mean overhead depth or just standing waist deep, etc?

3) Something about 2500 yard shots?

Any more?

When I get the response, I'll do like I did with the other claim (3" group at 25 yards in under 3 seconds...) and post it on the rifle forum of The Firing Line or The High Road or Sniper Country or wherever... I'm going to be as objective as possible because, just like I'm not into serious speed shooting, I'm not into long range rifle shooting either and I want to hear from people without a vendetta.

First and foremost, the #1 thing to get out of the way is that these claims are REPEATABLE in the sense that HR isn't just going to claim that he was "on" that day.

With all the crazy back and forth threads... I just want to get all the info about this "challenge" organized for my own peace of mind.

:D

Cheers... and THANKS!

Erik
 

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no, hard rock CLAIMED he could "silence sentrys" at 200 yds, while swimming, with another SWIMMER "holding him", with a suppressed rifle and a subsonic load. Since it's STUPID to risk a raid on something that aint 100%, I bet him $5000 to his $500 that he couldn't hit 9 out of 10 4" brain circles, under those conditions. A chest hit with a subsonic load is in NO way likely to prevent a sentry from screaming or firing a shot.

I also bet him even money, my $1000 to his $1000, that he can't even get 6 out of 10 on the chest, at 50m, under such conditions. :) He's ALSO claimed that he can get 10 shots across my sky screens (ie, 2" target) at 1200 yds with a 308. He's ALSO claimed that he has 308 ammo that is 2700 fps at the muzzle of a 26" barrel, 2200 fps at 600 yds, and subsonic (ie, 1050 fps) at 1200 yds. I have him on ignore, along with a dozen other pos's here, so I have no idea what all other bs he and others have claimed. :)
 

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Ok guys, this is starting to get out of hand.

1. The ammuntion is stuff that Wraith had. I gave my opinion on it. Tard has issues with it.

2. The "shooting while swimming" is an encroachment technique. It involves a partner, floatation system and rifle. I don't understand the big deal about it since this is a technique taught and used by the military.

3. I'm not sure what his deal is on the 2500 yard shots. I shoot targets at that range with my .338 and my .50. BFD.

And yes, it's repeatable.

Here's the deal, I've invited Tard out to see the encroachment technique simply because I'm sick of hearing his shit. Normally, I don't do this at all. I know what I can do and I honestly don't feel the need to prove it to anyone. You can take it as you feel like. Tard has started a ball rolling that he really doesn't want to get run over by. He's playing games but he doesn't realize how seriously some of us take this stuff. This is not however a free for all to assume or come and watch. If you guys want to see and be able to do these things, take the classes. It's that simple.

I've had nearly half a dozen people email me asking to be there when and if this happens. Sorry, I"m not hosting a flock of onlookers. If you want to see me demo this stuff, attend the classes and when you get to the higher level classes, you'll most likely see me doing it. But, I think you'll be more interested in the fact that you'll be able to do it.

Sorry to be a hard ass about this but I am not going to play entertainer for everyone. If you want to join in the fun, take the classes. The course schedule is on the SMTC website.

Mike
 

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since YOU are "wraith", you are LYING (again). The military does NOT claim anything LIKE reliable brain hits at 200 yds, with subsonic loads, you lying pos. I never commented on 2500 yds. The range speaks for itself. You may SHOOT at such ranges all day, but that doesn't mean you can get FIRST try hits on men out there. What you DO is use LOTS of spotter shots, get everything "down" on the SAME range, have your scope sighted in at that range, and then BS people about how that means jack shit in combat.
 

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Sigh... I'm not Wraith dipshit. Get over it.

I never said the military claimed it. Certain elements of the military practice the maneuver on a regular basis... that is what I said.

You state the following:

"You may SHOOT at such ranges all day, but that doesn't mean you can get FIRST try hits on men out there. What you DO is use LOTS of spotter shots, get everything "down" on the SAME range, have your scope sighted in at that range..."

You know jack shit about unknown distance shooting. So, here is an education.

1. I practice at different ranges and elevations during nearly all types of weather conditions. I practice a lot. I shoot a lot of rounds at a lot of targets.
2. I use the USMC mildot for ranging. I've shot enough rounds in PRACTICE that I know how the rifle and round is going to act in most weather conditions and elevations.
3. My scope is zeroed at 100 yards. I have the ability to dial up enough to get ranges out a lot farther than you can imagine. The mildot is a range estimation system that when combined with a mildot master and a wind SWAG, you can be right on at any range within seconds.

On all of my rifles barring 2 of them, I use the M3LR Leupold mildot scope. I purchase my scopes from Premiere Reticles in Winchester Va.

I'm sorry if you are so inept that you can't hit the broadside of a barn while standing inside of it, but I've put a lot of rounds down range and I'm confident in my shooting abilities. Am I the best? Not by a long shot. If you have issues with me, you'll really have issues with the guys that are the best at unknown distance and long range distance shooting. Why don't you look up the requirements to be a Secret Service sniper. The capabilities of those guys are baffling and I can assure you that they are no bullshit about those requirements.

Mike
 

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Been busy for a couple of months and unable to log on here. It gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling to see that things are just as I left them. Yes, there is consistency in the world. Ahhhhh. ;)

Best,
Jon
 

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andy said:
u r just a lying pussy, and you HATE that I've proven it, that's all.
Andy, nothing has been proven until the results are in from SMTC. Remember that there will be an independent observer there (Aslan) to make sure that you don't tell any lies.

RIKA
 

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Yo, RIKA, whassup?

SMTC? What did I miss? Did you all go with out me? If you did, you all are in trooooooouble!!!!

Jon
 

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Hi Jon,

I'll let Hard Rock or Aslan explain all this. Its just that GK got his bluff called about HR's skills.

Good to hear from you again.

RIKA
 

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Oh, I know, R. Haven't you figure out yet that I enjoy taking all of this very lightly?

Best,
J
 

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Sorry. Sometimes I am cursed with a very intense personality.

R
 

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And that, dear lady, is nothing you should feel the need to apologize for - especially around this group.

So, have a great Christmas ... you mean old hag.

Best,
Jon
 

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Discussion Starter #15
:smokin:

OK then...

Claims I've got

1) Ammo: had 308 ammo that is 2700 fps at the muzzle of a 26" barrel, 2200 fps at 600 yds, and subsonic (ie, 1050 fps) at 1200 yds.

2) The "shooting while swimming" encroachment technique involving a partner, floatation system and rifle. Hard Rock didn't give a range/accuracy requirement. GK said HR could "silence sentries" at 200 yards using this technique. I'm guessing that's a head shot/CNS/heart shot. Is it on a cold bore? 9 of 10 shots?

3) 2500 yards. I guess I hallucinated that one. But... HR said he regularly hits targets out that far with his .338 (Lapua or Win Mag?) and .50. Now, just for comprehension, that's 1.42 miles. What kind of targets do you hit at that range with regularity?

Thanks again for putting up with the questions, I just want to get them straight.

cheers
 

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Hard Rock CLAIMED on Liberty Front forum that he could silence sentries at 200 yds, while swimming, on LibertyFront's forums. Paco, Big Jon, Rostov, Hard Ball, Teuf, and a many others know that he did so. A subsonic load AINT a reliable stopper of a man from YELLING, with ANY body hit, not even spine. So it DOES mean 4" brain circle hits. IN FACT, as "wraith", Hard Rock claimed that even brain hits sometimes let a hostage holder pull a trigger. So he's a lying pussy, just like I said he is.
 

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andy said:
Hard Rock CLAIMED on Liberty Front forum that he could silence sentries at 200 yds, while swimming, on LibertyFront's forums. Paco, Big Jon, Rostov, Hard Ball, Teuf, and a many others know that he did so. A subsonic load AINT a reliable stopper of a man from YELLING, with ANY body hit, not even spine. So it DOES mean 4" brain circle hits. IN FACT, as "wraith", Hard Rock claimed that even brain hits sometimes let a hostage holder pull a trigger. So he's a lying pussy, just like I said he is.

So you are claiming that any brain hit will prevent a spasm or muscle contraction from pulling a trigger?

Just want to make sure what you are saying.

As far as what is or isn't reliable, now you are interjecting your opinion. Please cite the research that backs up your claims. otherwise, it is simply your opinion.

And, I will bet you any amount of money you want, that HardRock is not Wraith. (So stop with your insane posting already)

:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
lofl GK your stuff is just too distracting man...

to compete, I'll have to post something like this:





followed by

Claims I've got

1) Ammo: had 308 ammo that is 2700 fps at the muzzle of a 26" barrel, 2200 fps at 600 yds, and subsonic (ie, 1050 fps) at 1200 yds.

2) The "shooting while swimming" encroachment technique involving a partner, floatation system and rifle. Hard Rock didn't give a range/accuracy requirement. GK said HR could "silence sentries" at 200 yards using this technique. I'm guessing that's a head shot/CNS/heart shot. Is it on a cold bore? 9 of 10 shots?

3) 2500 yards. I guess I hallucinated that one. But... HR said he regularly hits targets out that far with his .338 (Lapua or Win Mag?) and .50. Now, just for comprehension, that's 1.42 miles. What kind of targets do you hit at that range with regularity?

:laugh:
 
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