Firearm Forums - Arms Locker banner
21 - 27 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
Fwiw, I have no dog in this fight as I’m not at all a shotgun guy. My defensive guns are AR’s and semiauto pistols. That said, blanket statements that are ignorant to the point of dangerous do cause me discomfort on a gun forum, where people who don't know better may take them seriously. So, here we go…

…shotgun can't do diddly.
That’s priceless. You claim one of the biggest virtues of your (non-existent) shorty AR is that with the .22 conversion you can change loads and increase it versatility. The shotgun does this without needing a conversion kit.

Need to shoot a bird on the wing? There’s a load for that. Need to shoot a deer? There’s a load for that. Need to shoot a squirrel? There’s a load for that. Need to kill a moose? There’s a load for that. Need to breach a door? There’s a load for that. Need to launch a search-party flare? There’s a load for that.

All without any adapters or conversion kits.

But you claim it “can’t do diddly”. Wow.

…the shotgun has VERY little effectie range.
You’re the one always harping that defensive work is short range. The shotgun is capable to 50-75 yards with a fair number of loads, and 75+ yards with some. Farther than you say we should need a defensive gun.

…The shotgun wont pierce soft armor, or even a car with the buckshot, at more than 10 ft of range and at any angle but 90 Degrees.
Wow again. Many shotgun loads won’t defeat soft armor, but some absolutely will. I’ve personally seen a level 2 vest with 12-gauge sabot slug clean through it. And some shotgun loads that soft armor stops still impart enough trauma to disable and even kill, even without achieving full penetration.

…It'"effectiveness" is a myth, put about by people who dont have much in the way of knowledge or ability...
Again (for the third time I think) — Clint Smith, James Yeager and Jerry Miculek very strongly disagree with that stupid statement. Are you claiming to be more knowledgeable and capable than they are?


If you're wondering what that Woody Woodpecker sound in your ears is,
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,175 Posts
While a shotgun is also not my first choice, in the past I have walked perimeter security at zero dark thirty in an area with triple canopy foliage (only thing missing was 5 inches of rain) which gave a whole new definition of dark, used one for feral dog control overseas and in better times, taken down a whole wack of ducks (food, Melvin). If you are in a static location and not moving around constantly a shotgun is a good tool in the toolbox to have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,590 Posts
Fwiw, I have no dog in this fight as I’m not at all a shotgun guy. My defensive guns are AR’s and semiauto pistols. That said, blanket statements that are ignorant to the point of dangerous do cause me discomfort on a gun forum, where people who don't know better may take them seriously. So, here we go…


That’s priceless. You claim one of the biggest virtues of your (non-existent) shorty AR is that with the .22 conversion you can change loads and increase it versatility. The shotgun does this without needing a conversion kit.

Need to shoot a bird on the wing? There’s a load for that. Need to shoot a deer? There’s a load for that. Need to shoot a squirrel? There’s a load for that. Need to kill a moose? There’s a load for that. Need to breach a door? There’s a load for that. Need to launch a search-party flare? There’s a load for that.

All without any adapters or conversion kits.

But you claim it “can’t do diddly”. Wow.


You’re the one always harping that defensive work is short range. The shotgun is capable to 50-75 yards with a fair number of loads, and 75+ yards with some. Farther than you say we should need a defensive gun.


Wow again. Many shotgun loads won’t defeat soft armor, but some absolutely will. I’ve personally seen a level 2 vest with 12-gauge sabot slug clean through it. And some shotgun loads that soft armor stops still impart enough trauma to disable and even kill, even without achieving full penetration.


Again (for the third time I think) – Clint Smith, James Yeager and Jerry Miculek very strongly disagree with that stupid statement. Are you claiming to be more knowledgeable and capable than they are?


If you're wondering what that Woody Woodpecker sound in your ears is,
And you can add Gabe Suarez to the list. He's actually shot criminals with his issued shotgun when an active LEO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,111 Posts
Shotguns also have an intimidation factor to them as well, people tend to stop and listen when you point one at them, more so than if you point a pistol at them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
And you can add Gabe Suarez to the list. He's actually shot criminals with his issued shotgun when an active LEO.
Checking YT for info on Belize, this came up on my YT home page. Looks like Chris Costa can also be added to that list. Again, not necessarily that 'the shotgun is better than the AR', but that 'the shotgun is certainly very capable'. I much prefer the AR carbine, but logic and history both tell us that either works fine for defensive purposes; and to pooh-pooh one just because we like the other is pure emotion talking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AeNLGrrDW4
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
birds all land
Not right in front of you.

animals all stop running.
Not right in front of you.

If it's not the size of a goose, at least, it's not worth a shotshell
So if I'm hungry and have a shotgun handy, I still shouldn't shoot a squirrel, pigeon, rabbit, pheasant or even a duck, because (since they're all smaller than a goose), they're not worth shooting.

Once again:
13912
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,590 Posts
This the same guy with the simulated human heads? He shoots up a similarly constructed torso.

 
21 - 27 of 27 Posts
Top