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Being without the .22lr conversion is just silly. If you fire a couple of rds of 223 every 200 rds of .22lr, the .22 gunk is GONE from the bore, the gas system, the muzzlebreak or the silencer. Being without a silencer for shtf is likewise dumb. Being without the option of carrying the rifle concealed in the backpack (disassembled) is not smart, either.

Nobody can know for sure what will be needed for shtf. So having the most options is best. With good softpoint or hollowpoints, the 223 has plenty of power. It's also plenty reliable enough, parts and mags are readily available for the AR, as well as acccessories and smithing. When they aint got chopper and humvee transport, safe bases to run back to, etc, nobody is going to be wearing rifle armor for long. It's way too heavy and restrictive. When guys are using cover, the head is all you have for a target anyway, so why worry about having to hit the head when they are not using cover?

Compared to making NOISE audible for 2 miles in every direction, a suppressed 223 and .22 unit (with subsonic 22lr's for the .22) is many times more suitable for shtf foraging (or ambush-harassment of enemies) than any other firearm. the shotgun will just call in your killers, and be no help when they are using cover at a mere 50 yds. The buckshot pattern is so scattered at that range that it will consistently miss the head (of cover users) with all the pellets. 50 yds is nothing if you have a decent autorifle, even a "mere" 22lr.

Shotshells are 10 to the lb for the 12 ga. 22lr's are 135 to the lb, 9mm's and 223's are 35-40 to the lb (depending upon bullet wt) 308's are 16-18 rds to the lb, depending upon bullet wt. 230 gr .45's and .30 AK rds are 22 to the lb.

Regardless of how remote-unapproachable you THINK your area is, the fact is that hundreds of people can reach it in one night of vehicular travel, and maybe another night's walking. (in the lower 48 states). Autorifle armed enemies will have to be assumed to be everywhere.

Regardless of how much you WANT to stay in place, fire, drought, diseases, fallout, flooding, or enemies can easily FORCE you to flee (or die in place).

The guy who has planned for and equipped himself to be alone and foot mobile can always team up with others, or stay-put). The guy who needs lots of help and gear can't go foot-mobile and solitary. He doesn't know how, and lacks the gear and the willpower to do so.
 

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KentuckyRifle said:
...Maybe that will be made up for by the cheaper cost of 223 ammo vs 308 or 7.69
Actually, 7.62x39 is typically cheaper than .223, and substantially cheaper than full 5.56
 

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glynn said:
Being without the .22lr conversion is just silly. If you fire a couple of rds of 223 every 200 rds of .22lr, the .22 gunk is GONE from the bore, the gas system, the muzzlebreak or the silencer.
Didn't Hard Rock post a thread awhile back about someones AR exploding because they did this?
 

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I would do like I do my bills, pay off the lowest bill first by doubling up on it. I would start with the cheapest round and work my way up from there.
 

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KentuckyRifle said:
Hi folks,

First post to the forum, I actually just found it today, seems like a great place to hang out so far. Here is my question; which of the calibers that I presently own would you stock up on first, or what pattern would you use for stocking up on them all (for a SHTF situation)

My "arsenal"

(2) .22 Semi-Auto Rifles
(1) 12 GA Mossberg 500 w/18" Barrel
(1) 9MM S&W 459
(1) .357 S&W 629 w/8 3/8" Barrel
(1) OLD S&W .38 short revolver (5 shot)

Coming soon! One from the list of
AR-15 (M4)
AK-47
FAL
G3

Still trying to make up my mind on which of these rifles to go for. Any thoughts on that tough choice would also be appreciated!
KR,

You have a fine collection, so don't worry about it.

As a ballistics researcher and shooting enthusiast, I've shot a lot of different guns over the years. (If it goes bang, I've probably shot it.) So, let me assure you that FULLSIZE AR's are much more reliable than the stories. For your needs, I would stick with a 20" or 16" barrel. A 20" barreled Bushmaster with new magazines (green followers) is a good choice. If you must have compactness, a 16" Bushmaster would be okay.

AK's are stone-cold reliable...they essentially never fail. Stick with the 7.62x39mm (.30 AK) caliber.

The FAL is a great rifle, but its parts are not as common as the AR and AK. FAL's are soft shooting for .308's.

The G3 is reliable, but odd. For example, you have to let the bolt carrier fly forward on its own or it will misfire...chambering a round is loud. GBullet's personal hint: Keep your fingers out of the way of the bolt...trust me, it hurts. :(

In the mean time, hone your skills with the .22's, 12 GA and 459. Favor ammo for the .22's and the 12 GA. In 12 GA: "1B" or "0B" and "6" or "7 1/2" are most versatile. In .22 LR, CCI Stingers or Remington Golden Bullets are tops.
 

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Most essential first for me

I'd stock up on the one I'd want to have the most of first. Since the AR is what I consider my primary weapon, I'd stock up on plenty of ammo for that one first. I consider that the essential weapon. Once that one was pretty much taken care of, then I'd start taking care of the "less important" calibers. I still consider the other calibers important, but I figure I have to prioritize them somehow, and that was a good way for me to do it. :madeuce:
 

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Coyote said:
Didn't Hard Rock post a thread awhile back about someones AR exploding because they did this?
Yes, or at least someone did. Don't remember who.

I believe that it is better to have an actual .22 firearm instead of a questionable conversion kit. I've tried a couple of .22-conversion kits, best I can say was that it was hit and miss, reliability wise. They were interesting, but I got better reliability and accuracy out of my wife's Ruger Mk2 than I did from a Ciener kit in a Mini-14.
 

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Most of the .22 kits I've used have been for practice only.

And yes the AR one can get an uppper dirty quickly. Next one I get will probably be a dedicated upper.

I've also found the .22 units for handguns to be very accurate, least more than what I expected from them. I wish someone made one for the Sig.
 

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The 22 conversion kit for the CZ75 is actually more accurate than my Roger MkII. It stays really clean too.

RIKA
 

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RIKA said:
The 22 conversion kit for the CZ75 is actually more accurate than my Roger MkII. It stays really clean too.

RIKA
Do you know if they make one to fit the P-01?
 

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Terry G said:
Do you know if they make one to fit the P-01?
The P01 has the same frame as my CZ Compact. Its shorter than the standard model so I don't think it would fit. Last time I checked the CZ website they didn't make a kit for our "shortys".

RIKA
 

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I guess I'll stick with my .22 Bersa. It's a pretty good understudy for the Makarov's and P-01.
 

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A simple strategy for stocking up.

every time you are in a place that sells ammo, try to buy at least one box of each caliber you own. Even if it is expensive. One box. Do it every time, without exception.

you will build up a decent stockpile.

when you can, buy bulk. Once you have a few thousand rounds of a given caliber you can stop buying a box every time, but now can start buying to replace what you shoot.

I’d also consider getting into reloading. That’s a topic for another thread.
 

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Hi folks,

First post to the forum, I actually just found it today, seems like a great place to hang out so far. Here is my question; which of the calibers that I presently own would you stock up on first, or what pattern would you use for stocking up on them all (for a SHTF situation)

My "arsenal"

(2) .22 Semi-Auto Rifles
(1) 12 GA Mossberg 500 w/18" Barrel
(1) 9MM S&W 459
(1) .357 S&W 629 w/8 3/8" Barrel
(1) OLD S&W .38 short revolver (5 shot)

Coming soon! One from the list of
AR-15 (M4)
AK-47
FAL
G3

Still trying to make up my mind on which of these rifles to go for. Any thoughts on that tough choice would also be appreciated!
if you get the AR, you wont need the .22lr rifle anymore, cause the .22lr conversion unit for the AR is a much better setup. You wont have to settle for having JUST 223, nor JUST .22lr, with a 10 second parts swap, you can have either one. The unit runs about $200 and weighs just 3/4 lb. The revolvers gain you nothing and neither does the shotgun, it's a toy, for shooting birds out of the air. For shtf, nobody can be doing that. Can't make noise, can't be out in daylight, use traps, snares, trotlines, fish poison, bird lime, nets, to feed yourself as best you can, quietly and stay underground during daylight hours. given the very high price of ammo and components, best get some pistol that has a .22lr unit, too. I THINK somebody, a long time ago, offered one for at least some of the Smith autos. Ciener would know.about that. Somebody offered one for the AK, the FAL and the HK rifles, too, but you need a barrel liner for the .30 cals, which REALLY hurts your accuracy.

For training and practice, you can do a lot with dryfire, .177 lead pellet guns for precision fire, airsoft for rapidfire and fast draw training. The bullseye and plinking stuff is over with, until we get at least one house of congress back. Nobody can afford to waste ammo on such bs anymore. I bet ALL match attendance has been cut at LEAST in half, with primers unavailable and ammo costing 3-4x as much as it did 18 months ago. Avoid guns that have no .22 unit. Like the AR-180. There's a .22 unit for the Mini-14, from Ciener Firearms. I have no idea if it's any good or not.
 

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Personally I would avoid crippling my fighting rifle with a .22 conversion. 10 seconds (which I don't believe) is more than enough time for a fight to be over. Having a dedicated defense / fighting rifle and a dedicated .22 for foraging - like a Ruger pistol makes more sense. transitioning to your fighting rifle is simply letting go of the pistol and bringing the rifle to bear, much faster than 10 seconds, and no danger of ending up with your rifle inoperable because you had to run in the middle of swapping the BCG.

The pistol should be dummy corded to you. That way, dropping it means you still have it. Anything you don't want to lose should be tied to you in one way or another. FHF sells a couple of rat tail lanyards that are awesome for this type of use. There are others out there, for you can simply use paracord.

I'd also consider using .300 black out for the rifle. It suppresses extremely well, and sub-sonic or supersonic ammo is simply a magazine change. Much quicker and safer than trying to swap out magazines and BCGs in the middle of trouble. Fewer things to go wrong. 300 yards and under, the supersonic rounds are quite effective. But there is nothing wrong with .223 / 5.56 from a 16" barrel or longer.

Simple is fast, complicated can be fatal. Choose accordingly.

as in all things, YMMV
 

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For handguns I'm against purchasing a box here and a box there, you end up buying ammunition from multiple lots (batches) that may produce radically different results, depending on age and previous storage conditions. A few hundred rounds of factory pistol ammo should last you for for months during an average emergency. If you are in a WROL situation, I'll go for reloads, that way I can produce thousands that produce the exact same results.
 
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For handguns I'm against purchasing a box here and a box there, you end up buying ammunition from multiple lots (batches) that may produce radically different results, depending on age and previous storage conditions. A few hundred rounds of factory pistol ammo should last you for for months during an average emergency. If you are in a WROL situation, I'll go for reloads, that way I can produce thousands that produce the exact same results.
I get what you're saying, but some considerations from my perspective:

  1. availability - can't always find ammo or there are restrictions on qtys
  2. budget - may not be able to afford to buy in qty
  3. for some, the amount of variance between lots isn't readily apparent to the novice shooter - but it is still adequate for practice and defensive use.
  4. spouse friendly approach - buying here and there is usually more acceptable.
some thoughts, not an exhaustive list. I haven't seen what I'd call radically difference results in ammo lots. I've seen some, but generally not enough to make any practical difference for hunting or training. It would make a difference for competitive shooting, or longer range shots beyond 300-400 yards (rifle).
 
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