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Discussion Starter #1
As I am certain you folks have noticed, I have been rattling sabers with andy over our differing percerption of realistic pistolcraft in the game of IPSC. I am not arguing with andy to fuel the flames of the raging fire, nor am I arguing with him to stroke my own ego.

I am offering a contrary view in the interest of accuracy. I am by trade a teacher. I abhor misinformation with an unrivaled passion. I hate the revisionists who would have us believe the holocaust never happened. I have no tolerance for those who would have us believe the earth is flat. And I have no use for people who misrepresent the sports I dearly love.

My personality type is one of "preserver". That type of personality can be found in law enforcement, the military, and the judicial system. We try to preserve the orderly nature of things. Andy is wreaking havoc with my perception of how things "are" in the world of shooting fundamentals. It bothers me that he is offering what I percieve as half truths and misinformation as educational material for the benefit of those who want to learn.

When Andy talks about things like easily nailing a target from the buzzer in .65 seconds, I am going to counter with factual information. Such as, the Holy Grail of IPSC match draws is one second. The average draw of the top shooters in Steel Challenge is 1.20 seconds, etc. I am offering this information so the readers can look at the total picture and make a better informed decison.
 

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Dude, that's how nearly everyone who now just insults him started, too.

Welcome to the Slippery Slope!

:punch:
 

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I like your posts.

I've shot a little IPSC, IDPA, HighPower, 3-gun, Second Chance Bowling Pins, Steel Challange, and Long Range Field courses.

I've met some of the IPSC/USPSA topguns not that they'd know me from Adam we were just in the same place at the same time and shooters tend to talk to each other, especially at the old Second Chnace Match.

You have more insight into that world than many people do, and you can accurately correct misperceptions.
 

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you're the liar CLAIMING to get TWO chest hits AND a head shot, in 1.40 seconds, ALL THE TIME, punk. The head shot takes .40 second, the double tap .20 second, so you HAVE to be getting .80 second react, draw and first rd hits, or you're a LIAR. The speed rig IS .10 second faster, and you've already SAID that your draw SUCKS. So WHICH thing are you lying about, hmm? You're CERTAINLY Lying about one or the other.
 

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andy said:
I never said it was "easy", either. I said I'd managed it, with a LOT of work and a speed rig.
If you would like to prove that NUTTY JOHN, I will drive to Pagosa Springs, CO, I will knock on your door, and introduce myself. I will bring my video camera, my timer and video tape you and your times.

What say TARD, do you want to go for it?

We could stop all of this back and forth BS by the end of next week. Are you a good enough pistolero to back up your assertins?

The Ball is in your court TARD.
 

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andy said:
you're the liar CLAIMING to get TWO chest hits AND a head shot, in 1.40 seconds, ALL THE TIME, punk. The head shot takes .40 second, the double tap .20 second, so you HAVE to be getting .80 second react, draw and first rd hits, or you're a LIAR. The speed rig IS .10 second faster, and you've already SAID that your draw SUCKS. So WHICH thing are you lying about, hmm? You're CERTAINLY Lying about one or the other.
[/quote]I never said it was "easy", either. I said I'd managed it, with a LOT of work and a speed rig.[/quote]

vs
2 to chest, 1 to head, 7 yds, 1.5 secs
isfairly simple, on an electronic timer, starting hands at sides, with asecure "speed rig", for a top hand. He can react, draw, get the firsthit on the chest in .65 second, get the second chest hit in another .18 second, leaving him a full .65second to raise the sights a bit and get the head shot. Yet with andFBI rig (openly worn) only a very few thousand on the face of the earthcan get the first chest hit in 1.5 second. Only a few hundred can do sofrom a ccw belt rig.Moving at such speeds is a bit "hairy" when usingcocked and locked, but it can be done.
You said it was fairly simple john.

If it's fairly simple for a top hand it's not super seriously magically difficult for a decent shooter.

If the speed rig is only .10 faster and if it's fairly simple to do the entire drill in 1.5 with a speed rig why is so difficult that only a very few thousand can get the first chest hit in 1.5 with the "FBI rig"?
 

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Ankeny said:
I am not arguing with andy to fuel the flames of the raging fire, nor am I arguing with him to stroke my own ego.

Sorry, dude. Doesn't matter what you explain your motivations to be, the above is precisely what you'll get accused of.

Welcome to the club. :dgrin:
 

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" and you've already SAID that your draw SUCKS. So WHICH thing are you lying about"

Post a link in which I said that. If you cant then you have just proved your self a liar.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I left out some information. I posted this thread because I received an e-mail (remember I posted my e-mail addy) accusing me of self promotion at the expense of Rich's web space.

As for my draw, it is a well established fact that my on demand par time draw sucks, in comparison to the top flight shooters. I really suck big time according to andy's standards, as does Rob Leatham, Brian Enos, Matt Burkett, and so on. I have been working on the draw for several years and I have countless posts on Brian Enos.com bemoaning my sloth like draw. It is a fact that I came in second two years in a row at the Colorado State Steel Challenge Championship because of my inadequate par time draw. In Steel Challenge each stage has five runs (with one exception) and they count the best four runs. With 8 stages of fire, that's 32 draws. If you are .20 off the pace that puts you down 6.4 seconds before you ever pop a cap.

What andy doesn't realize is I have monster splits and decent transitions. I also have a good par time reload. Many of the drills he mentions can be accomplished with draws much slower than what he thinks are required. His target math is faulty beyond belief. As you guys will also notice, I don't claim to be able to perform these feats cold, on demand, in every match. As my record shows on the USPSA website, when I am on, I do well, when I suck, I tank the course with the best of them.

FWIW andy, in the IDPA classifier, they let me shoot my own gear as long as it is legal. Also, the IDPA classifier doesn't require concealment. On the Mozambique, with IDPA aproved gear I can pop a 1.1 draw, .18 split and a .35 transition for a total time 1.63 on a regular basis. On those days when I hit the draw, I have shot the drill in sub 1.40 seconds. I looked in my book and my personal best for this drill at 5 yards is 1.27 seconds. It was a fluke.
 

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Ron, keep it up, your posts are very informative.
 

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Garand said:
Ron, keep it up, your posts are very informative.
I agree. There have been a lot of fantastic posts made by many people of talent, skill and intelligence over years in counter to Andy's bs. I, Ron, for one, enjoy reading what you write. Your posts are also prodding me to get into IDPA shooting as a friend of mine has been trying to get me to do for a while. Heck, I'm even thinking about IPSC since it seems like at least some of y'all are pretty good guys!
 

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Ankeny,

Nice to see your well worded and civil replies to Andy. Also nice to see you disagree and offer proof of your claims. This is quite the difference from Andy, who claims a lot, but offers little proof if any that I have ever seen.

Please keep up the on topic and respectful replies as it goes a long way to keep this site on target.

Thanks
Glenn B
 

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Ankeny said:
I left out some information. I posted this thread because I received an e-mail (remember I posted my e-mail addy) accusing me of self promotion at the expense of Rich's web space.
You didn't receive that email from me. I have LOTS of server space, so that is not a concern. The server this site is running on has 1 terabyte of bandwidth up and the same down, so bandwidth is the least of my concerns.

Unless you hear complaints from me, Ron, just ignore them, please. This site is eaten up with trolls lately.
 

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andy said:
NObody "counters" my posts with anything but bs. EVER.
And NUTTY JOHN spouts off again ... in his usual literate manner! :nyah:
 

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ANKENY, i'm glad your posting good info!

i stay away [1] week and it's still about the same,although, this is the first thread i've opened!

keep up the good work.
 

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andy said:
NObody "counters" my posts with anything but bs. EVER.
That's your opinion, but people reading the threads, insults aside, have a very different opinion.

:devil:
 
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