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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why imagine a 20" circle as a target, instead of a realistic 10" one? Why be so stupid as to be carrying a bolt aciton, or be in the open, in daylight? Nobody you'll see, holding still, is any threat, cause they're stupid. You won't hit them if they are moving, at anything like 1000 yds, because it's not possible to gauge their speed that accurately, and because the bullet will be in the air for 1.5- 2 seconds, in which the man can easily stop, turn, change speeds, etc, making you miss. Wind can easily lull, or gust in 1.5 seconds. You have no control over such things, so WHY alert people who don't have a clue of your presence, hmm? If you NEED to stop them, you'll have to get a lot closer than 1000 yds, and hit a lot more than one of them. Such is not difficult, and if you think it's dangerous, it's cause you are inept or improperly equipped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Standing offer, year's pay bet, 10" circle, 400 yds,

with any battle auto, any scope, any ammo, firing from sitting, using a backpack as a rest, 5 times in one year, on days and places I pick a year in advance. :) If you HAVE to fire, it WON'T be on a windless, mirageless day, from a sandbag prone, in nice weather, people. Murphy doesn't play that way. 1 shot for record, no warmups, no spotters, and the first time you miss, out of the 5 tries, you owe me a year's pay. NOBODY's dared take me up on it yet. :)

The times and places? Death Valley, mid august, at 3pm. Helena, Mt, Jan 15, 8am. Miami, Fla, July 4, 4 pm, OKC, Mar 15, 4 pm, and Seattle, WA, 8 Am, rainy season. :) You THINK such extremes are out of line? I'm not taking your LIFE when you miss, and the enemy probaby will, so there's CONSIDERABLY more pressure when it's for real. So I'm letting you off EASY, and you probably WONT have match ammo or a functional, zeroed scope when you need it, either. A year's pay will teach you a GOOD lesson about all the bs you constantly claim about being able to "outreach" a good 223, under realistic combat conditions.

In most of the USA, most of the year, if you and the enemy are both prone, you either can't see him, or can't get a shot for the vegetation that your bullet would have to penetrate, causing a sure miss at such a range, on such a target. A head on prone man is at MOST a 10" circle as a target. usually, he's more like a 12" wide, 6" high mark, because of ground swells, cover of some sort, etc.

A good HBAR is capable of making such a hit at 600 yds, no problem, IF YOU ARE. :) The fact is, nobody is that capable, even at 400 yds, under typical "sniping" conditions. If it's shtf, you either won't GET nice shooting conditions, or you didn't really have to fire. If you dont' have to, and do anyway, you are an idiot, plain and simple, especially if all you have is a noisy bolt action.
 

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More recycled meaningless posts. Surely you can come up with something new?
 

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andy said:
Why imagine a 20" circle as a target, instead of a realistic 10" one? Why be so stupid as to be carrying a bolt aciton, or be in the open, in daylight? Nobody you'll see, holding still, is any threat, cause they're stupid. You won't hit them if they are moving, at anything like 1000 yds,[STOP] so WHY alert people who don't have a clue of your presence, hmm? If you NEED to stop them, you'll have to get a lot closer than 1000 yds, and hit a lot more than one of them. Such is not difficult, and if you think it's dangerous, it's cause you are inept or improperly equipped.
I hacked/slashed yer' post ol'boy
because only YOU can pinpoint/determine ACCURATE-AGRESSIVE-AIMED FIRE
FROM A 'mere' 1000yards away[oh,boy! can you be ALERTED to the simple fact that U-R-A-TARD!]

i really think YOU should take up wing-shootin' with a SHOT-GUN!
as YOU could LEARN a WHOLE HOWARD DEAN DIAPER-FULL OF 'simple' FACTS!
 

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like an energizer bunny.......

....Don't need people like us to get replies, the "answers" just keep on coming, and I keep hearing
"Dancing with myself"for some reason.......oops, didn't mean to reply, as it is unnessassary. :madeuce:
 

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we think they will be holding still because you've told us they will. Anyone with a .308 or a mildot scope has to be standing around in the open to use them. Or anyone using a compass - plus they will be moving in a straight line.

You have repeated this over and over again. Since you are never wrong, it must be so.
We will have no problems whatever shooting them.

Or were you wrong with those statements - either this thread is wrong, or all your assertions about the guys with .308s, mildots, and compasses are wrong. (They can't both be right as they conflict with each other.)

Just wondering.

:devil:
 

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More questions;

1) Why would someone surrender to a phone call??

2) How much force is a meter maid allowed to use when effecting an arrest??

and the fantasy continues............................................
 

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andy said:
with any battle auto, any scope, any ammo, firing from sitting, using a backpack as a rest, 5 times in one year, on days and places I pick a year in advance. :) If you HAVE to fire, it WON'T be on a windless, mirageless day, from a sandbag prone, in nice weather, people. Murphy doesn't play that way. 1 shot for record, no warmups, no spotters, and the first time you miss, out of the 5 tries, you owe me a year's pay. NOBODY's dared take me up on it yet. :) .
andy i can and have shot 6" groups at 600 yrds off hand, and not one day was it with a scope, windless, or mirageless, and not a sand bag in site. thats 5 rounds in a 6" circle with 2 spotter rounds.
andy said:
A good HBAR is capable of making such a hit at 600 yds, no problem, IF YOU ARE. :) The fact is, nobody is that capable, even at 400 yds, under typical "sniping" conditions. If it's shtf, you either won't GET nice shooting conditions, or you didn't really have to fire. If you dont' have to, and do anyway, you are an idiot, plain and simple, especially if all you have is a noisy bolt action.
andy you have obviously never shot an HBAR. i need you to find me one and someone who can perform this miracle for me, i would like to see this done. they can shoot from a rest with a scope. and yes you can spray and pray a hit at 600 yrds with an HBAR. but 5 rnds in 6"'s, 8"'s, or 10"'s ya right. or 12 for that matter, i would be willing to bet that at 600 yrds with a 20 rnd magazine you couldn't hit a 15" circle more that 3 times shooting off a rest with a scope, much less shooting off hand with irons on a rifle. i have shot an HBAR at 600 yrds and 800 yrds so show me how it's done. well thats my nickles worth on that subject. :cool:
 

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andy said:
A year's pay will teach you a GOOD lesson about all the bs you constantly claim about being able to "outreach" a good 223, under realistic combat conditions.
How about a match between a .223 and whatever rifle we want. At random distances on the same day and at the same place and time. First one to miss when the other hits a target loses. Same years pay (but we base on the years pay of whomever earns the most) If both miss we shoot again at another distance until one hits and one misses.

Both weapons under the same conditions. Then we see if the the .223 has the same reach under the same conditions or not. And you get to pick the place and the date. we get to pick the time. And YOU have to do the shooting, not a mythical someone.

That would settle your claim that nobody can outreach the .223 under the same conditions. Or could it be that under the exact same conditions, the .223 can be out-reached?

Seems like a reasonable test, and it applies your rules and your logic. But it matches the weapons as well.

:devil:
 

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See you on the FAR side.......another angle...

Let's see, first off, generally there are no restrictions on weaponry in unregulated conflicts, seems pretty simple if look at it from the 600m line(the metric advantage...if I'm the "shootee", I damn sure will be as far away as possible-definately 600 LONG yards....ofcourse as the shootER, I will
hedge the bet with IMPERIAL YARDS, ...sorry, couldn't resist that one!!!).Ask anyone with BALLISTIC SENSE if they would rather be on the recieving end of the .223 HBAR, fired from 600m/yds away,....or say an M-40/AR-10/M-14/PSG-1 etc in 7.62 . Myself, with no hesitation would definately prefer to deal with incoming .223, and my response would be in 7.62. Simple really-would you "rather" take a wee .223(as this bullet is much more apt to stray from variables you mention),or 175grns of HPBT FROM 7.62??????????
There are plenty of real world shooters that can make this shot with relative consistancy especially with a spotter.
Ofcourse, if another limitation is that this is a "survivalist"
scenario utilizing general population, that percentage would be drasticly reduced-almost to nil.....Rule in a wartime conflict generally work against those who follow them-so, .....!"No fire "zone to one side, will become a "free fire "zone to the other! always bring a gun to a knife fight!!!!! :cool: :cool: :cool: ........ I guess that's my 3 cents of ballistic sense/nonsense
 

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I will destroy your argument with a simple question:

will you be running and aiming your rifle to shoot at the other guy, or will you be stopped, stable and aiming?

if all they are doing is running, then they really aren't much of a threat. if they're shooting, they are either aiming - meaning they are stopped, or they are not aiming in which case they aren't much of a threat.
 
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