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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
His book was just a "sales job" for the gun industry, especially for Pachmayr's and King's Gunsmithing. You won't HAVE 5-10 guns when you need them, because you can't carry them all. A shotgun is a bad joke, for almost anything, actually. It has no more effective range than a .22 autorifle, can't be silenced, can't be concealed, is slow and awkward to reload, has little mag capacity, spare ammo carry is awkward and exposed to debris and the elements, the ammo is vulnerable to dust, moisture, rough handling. It won't penetrate much of anything, slugs and buck are very expensive. Given a handy length barrel, it won't reliably stop a man beyond 25 yds, some can't do so beyond 20 yds. Their patterns are too big to put more than 2-3 pellets on the 10" vitals-circle at such ranges (00 buck) and such a pellet has no more power than a .22lr (from a rifle) at such ranges. It won't reliably put a SINGLE 00 pellet on the head (using cover) beyond 20 yds, and some won't do so beyond 50 ft. You have to check each type of buckshot with your barrel. Buck and slugs don't have the same POI, either. Different slugs will have diff POI's, too. So the 12 ga is NOTHING like as effective as people think. \

If you'll TIME people's hits, the pump 12, using 00 buck, in most hands, is no faster for chest hits than a good hand with an AR15, if the AR user practices with a .22lr conversion unit, saving 50c per shot.
 

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By null at 2010-10-29

Funny my Winchester M97 taken down is about the same size as my AR 15 taken down. As previously mentioned, all firearms have their purposes and if used within their limitations you will be successful in their employment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's still being read and referred to by the ignorant, so I decided to debunk it. again, since so many here are newbies.
 

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I think the one I ordered is used and it's from Amazon.

Garand I almost wish you hadn't posted that pic of the M97, now I want one.
 

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1945 Trench Gun, 1913 mfg then 1906 mfg. Later 2 have screw in chokes
 

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So let me see if I have it right? I am supposed to believe the ravings of an individual who has been a guest of the prison system, because he is so much smarter. If I listen to Andy how long before I end up a guest in a government facility? especially his ranting about supressors.

Just one good example, Andy said:
If you'll TIME people's hits, the pump 12, using 00 buck, in most hands, is no faster for chest hits than a good hand with an AR15, if the AR user practices with a .22lr conversion unit, saving 50c per shot.
Let me see, I can walk into Walmart for $39.95 + 5% sales tax (2.00)= $41.95 for 100 rounds of Federal 55 grain FMJ. By my math the cost for those rounds are just under .42 a round, how can I save .50?

I will admit I can find CMMG .22 conversion kits at $100 to $200 and with a little effort (not much) find 500 rounds of .22 Long Rifle for $20 so that for a little more that $200 I can get an adapter and 500 round of LR or I can get 500 rounds of Federal FMJ. After that it is around .42 versus .04. but if you look at other discussions on this forum and others, plenty of people would say that you really should have a dedicated .22 upper conversion so that you aren't dumping all that soot back into your face and action with the gas tube. They tend to run more in the $500 dollar range, so that means it is more like a 1200-1500 round break even point.

I will admit one thing about Andy his postings on hear have definitely upped the number of fresh postings and discussion on here.
 

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I will admit one thing about Andy his postings on hear have definitely upped the number of fresh postings and discussion on here.
Thats covers it all, nothing like debunking 40 year old advise! As for a bayonet, I've never seen a need for one during a "Wild Bunch" match.
 

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Why are you going on about a book written 33 years ago?
One, iGMO is envious of anyone getting famous from giving firearms advice, not infamous like him.
Two, he's of course stuck in his broken record SHTFantasy of being The Wondering Uber Brigand of the Apocalypse. Let it be fantasied about let be as good as reality.🤣
 

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I actually thought that Tappens book was one of the funniest that I ever read. The chapter on choices was unbelievable, one couple needed 47 guns in a total of 15 different calibers to survive in Alaska
 
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Yeah in that section of the book he did go overboard on things or did they?
Wasn't that the one where they had every barrel length of S&W Model 29 available? Plus several Automag's?
Like they were going to be besieged by "Bear Lives Matter".
And had to have a caliber/gauge for each specific game or predator animal out there?
Or maybe I'm confusing his with their's?
It's been around 25years since I lost my old copy of it.
The only thing I believe was pretty decent for a complete novice was the directions and basic instructions on pistol shooting.

Otherwise many of the firearms mentioned have gone through changes over the years or are just plain unavailable. Unless you pay a collector's price.
Like the Armalite AR-180 I had for awhile.
I had always hoped that somebody would make a unscrewed with quality version again and not the last two abortions that I'm aware of.
 

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Unfortunately I lost my copy also and am not able to find a digital replacement.
 

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Yeah and I have no idea what a used copy on amazon or fleabay would be.
 
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