[Guest]

ammo, right in your own home. Suspend a tarp to catch the wax bullets, the primer wont give the slugs enough power to pierce a canvass tarp. You can be learning how long it takes you to react to a signal, and just hit with an "aimed in" gun, to react, raise a lowered gun and hit, to react, traverse across an area and hit, to draw and hit, etc. That information is priceless, worth far more than just some more rds launched at the range, either group shooting or plinking. Finding it out can be a lot of fun, too. Just keep a notebook, so you dont have to try to remember everything, when it's time to evaluate whether or not such and such a response is tactically sound.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

I practice my tactical shooting at the range with live ammo of the same load that I carry on the street. Aren't you the guy who talked about not bothering with toy guns like .22s, shotguns and the like. Why on earth would you practice with toy rounds that obviously will not engage the action sufficiently to reload the weapon? You are talking single shots as tactical practice, and that is rather poor format for tactical training for the most part. Sure some tac train can be single shot, but most should be at least double tap on every shot - and that goes for pistol, revolver, semiauto and auto rifle, smgs - just about everything except maybe bolt action sniper rifles. You also should always train with the ammo that you will use on the street if at all possible. You seem to think that range training is not up to snuff; and seem to imply that all it amounts to is shooting at paper targets. Maybe you have not been to a LE range lately, because that is certainly not the only thing that goes on during tactical phases of the training. There are lots of various situational shoots, shooting from the hip such as push off shooting, shooting from seated positions to simulate shooting from a vehicle, quick draw shooting, off hand shooting, shooting at moving targets, shooting while moving (walking, running), shooting from behind cover, moving from cover to cover, one handed reloads, clearing drills, one handed clearing drills, officer down shooting in various positions, vertical tracking, multiple adversaries, shoot/don't shoot situations, metal reactive targets and lots more. A range can be set up as needed and is a safe place to practice such stuff.

Training in the basement of your OWN unattached home (single family house) using wax bullets may be ok for the single person who does not care too much about safety but; if you live with someone else forget about it. Even with wax of plastic bullets there is too much of a chance that a live round could accidentally go into the firearm.
Best regards,
GB

 

[bucfan]

I wonder how long it would be till i got any from the wife if she caught me hanging a tarp in the house to shoot ANY kind of ammo into. All the married men will agree.

Nick

"ANY DAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD ONE''

 

[Guest]

sorry about you wimps, but my wife

shoots wax our house. So do many more of whom I'm aware. Other men just do what they want, and those who live off of those men's earnings have smarts enough to not give them any static over such minor things.

The wax rounds, with a timer, can teach the INTELLIGENT man a lot about what's FEASIBLE, for the first shot, in the way of reaction time, draw, pivot with gun, traverse with gun, etc. But only intelligent men can learn anything. I never said a WORD about not bothering with the .22, liar. If you want to quote me, get it RIGHT, or keep your mouth shut about what I"ve "said".

At typical civilian defense ranges, ie, 10 ft and less, there's no difference in between using a lw, compact .22 and a large, heavy 9mm for practice, because neither one is going to recoil enough to come off of the chest circle (10" ) as fast as you can trigger it, because of recoil or blast) Most such defensive firing is at 6 ft and less, and at such ranges, theres no difference in the controlability of .45 ball in a lw compact gun,and the .22, either. I can get .16 second splits with such a .45, keeping all shots on your chest, just as easily as I can with the .22 conversion unit.

Your "tactical" firing is done MUCH more slowly, at silly longer distances, so i'ts YOU who doesn't know the real score.

Every year, the DOJ'S Crime Survey says 65-75% of all attacks are not made with a gun. In other words, they are made at 6 ft and less. Every year, the FBI'S UCR says over half of all GUN attackes occur at 10 ft and less, with a LOT of them occuring at 6 ft and less. So, say 1/4 of the the 30% that do involve a gun are at 6 ft. That makes the odds 3 to 1 that you will engage at 6 ft or less, if you are a civilian, JUSTIFIABLY shooting an attacker. the odds are at LEAST even, more likely 2 to 1, that you will fire at arm's length, too. The odds are 4 or 5 to 1 that you will fire at 10 ft or less. 20% of all cops who get shot, get shot with their own gun, or one just taken from another cop. Lots more WOULD be so shot, but luck, body armor, or somebody ELSE'S action saves them.

 

[bucfan]

I guess i'm not paranoid enough to think, that someone is going to break into my house, to fill the need to pratice self defense inside my home. I would still like an ansewer to Gleen's question about the primer and opperating an auto gun. Do you just train for a one shot one kill in the dark, inside your home with a hand gun, or do you cycle the gun manually? I guess i'm just puttin' me and my family in danger by having a Hk super 90 12 ga under the bed for home protection? Is that what you are saying? Oah and yes i have my one shot one kill with the Hk loaded with 00 buck. Come on and get in the ball game Mr Delta opperater and start putting a name on your posts.

Nick

 

[andy]

the whole Net knows my name. It's

John Davis, and the odds are VERY heavy that you will never GET to your longarm in time to do jack crap with it. Those of us with some sense just ALWAYS carry. We recognize two things that ignoramuses like you don't. We are just as worthy and righteous to defend ANYWHERE as we are at home, and we know that we are 4x as likely to be attacked while away from home. You are a twit who'd buy fire or accident insurance tha'ts only good between noon and 6pm, ie, 1/4 of the time.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Now let me see if I got his right. Mr. John Davis was or is the same person who was 'unregistered', who also has a sign on name of Andy? Do I have this right, if so it is more confusing thatn ever. If not, well then I know I need to address my next post to unregistered. Will someone please clarify this, so I can respond accordingly. Thanks

Sincerely,
Glenn Bartley

 

[.45 COLT]

From the tone of the posts, Unregistered, Andy and maybe 223 Fan are the same person. I peg him / her to be about 15 years old and overimpressed with himself.

DC

 

[Glenn Bartley]

The First Part is to 'Unregistered' whomever you are,

I never said a WORD about not bothering with the .22, liar. If you want to quote me, get it RIGHT, or keep your mouth shut about what I've "said".

Now you call me a liar for having quoted you, and heck I did not even quote you, not about 22s in this threrad anyhow. Hmm, look back and check. Please show me where I QUOTED you. I thought I asked a question! You see it is hard to figure out what you posted, because you do not post, or at least have not usually posted with a name. Therefor shouldn't all posts bearing unregistered be attributed to you? Your temper seems easily flared up, is that how you would react in your home if something upset you while you were practicing with wax. While so upset you might accidentally place a live mad into the mag well, and then have a disastor.

Now I will quote you:

those who live off of those men's earnings have smarts enough to not give them any static over such minor things

No man is an island - have you heard that before. Virtually all men in some way shape or form live off of other men's earnings. I readily admit I live off of what other men have earned because I am paid by the tax dollar. I do earn my money though, and have busted my ass more often than not over the years to earn it. Others have earned from my work. One of the ways I have earned it is by instructing tactical firearms training. Another way was by protecting people in this country. Now the way I figure it, I am out there protecting your rights as an American or maybe even as an illegal who illegally entered this country, or anything in between (whatever fits). So maybe it is you who should best not give static, or maybe those of us who do this thankless job will tell you to bugger off and we will stop working. Sure not much chance of that, heck the G is so afraid of what would happen if we did that the G forbids us to strike. Now what were you saying (Freedom of Speech, one of the rights of yours that I protect, wouldn't you know.)

I wrote this before seeing the John Davis post. If you are John Davis, then this (the first paragraph that follows) applied before you finally registered; if you are not John Davis then it still applies completely as I see it. My apologies to Mr. Davis if he and 'unregistered' are not one and the same. I think no apology is needed if it is one and the same person.
****************************************************
Enough of the pecker-wood stuff, get real and register your real name. Stop hiding behind anonymity. When you become man enough (or is it woman enough) to make a post using a registered sign-on name, well at least then I will be able to decisively attribute quotes or other info to you. As it stands now, I will look to every post on this site that bears 'unregistered' as the poster's name, and I will attribute each and every one to you (unless later corrected by the poster to indicate some form of identification other than unregistered). I will do this if for no other reasons than you will not register and, you leave me little choice.

As for your retort about who knows what, again you sputter hollow words from your mouth in my opinion. Are you kidding that I regularly shoot further out than 6 feet, of course I do BUT; I also shoot at distances where I start off at less than 18 inches from target, and from where I am actually touching the target. I shoot while kneeling and sitting. I also shoot prone on my belly, on my back, on my sides. I shoot sitting and shoot from such to the left and right. I shoot two handed and one handed. I even practice one handed unloading/reloading drills, and perform malfunction clearing one handed. I shoot quick draw. I shoot from a sighted in position. I shoot from the hip. I vertically track my shots too. I shoot with a shot timer and without. I shoot while standing still, and while moving. I move laterally, diagonally and forward and backwards while shooting. I shoot strong hand and weak hand. I switch hands as best suited to the situation. I shoot at full shilouette, and also at hostage targets. I shoot at multiple targets. I shoot at shoot/don't shoot type targets. I shoot at reactive steel. I shoot from behind concealment, and from behind cover. I run around and then shoot to get the heart pumped up and to see how well I shoot. I shoot at night under poor lighting conditions. I shoot shotgun, rifle, and pistol. I have shot sub-gun but gave it up so another shooter in a more active group could use the one that was issued to me, this was of my own accord. I sometimes shoot paint but usually, for the much greater part, shoot live ammo, the same stuff I carry on the street. Paint is only shot when we shoot at one another during practice, either at a range or a specially set up shooting house.

I do real close in shooting. You should try it sometimes. It is called Push-Off shooting. It is about as close as you would ever want to be to shoot someone and then get a bit closer. I also practice with OC spray, with hand to hand combat and knife take aways. I practice handcuffing techniques too. I have also instructed other shooters, as to the great majority of shooting types I mentioned above, on a regular basis. I also shoot in other fashions that I will not and cannot go into here for national security reasons.

As to where I shoot, all of my shooting is done at either ranges of some sort, or areas set up for shooting paint. One place I do not shoot is in my home. Unless you have a range in the home, it is not a great idea to shoot your carry firearm in the home. Keep on shooting in your house. Sooner or later you are bound to put a live one in the chamber, but I'll bet you will not be so ready to post about that here. As for wax bullets: Keep on shooting those wax bullets, that will not put the slide into full battery during your tactical shooting; or is it you only fire them from revolvers.


I mentioned most of this in a previous post within this thread, yet you still claim:

Your "tactical" firing is done MUCH more slowly, at silly longer distances, so i'ts YOU who doesn't know the real score.

You do not address the issues as they come up, you just want to make other people look dumb, and make yourself look smart. You have failed, I think, in that regard. Please don't tell me where I or others normally shoot, and where we should shoot, or how close to target we are when we shoot, when you could not possibly have an idea. Better yet, please do not base your argument on baseless claims.

****************************************************
This next part is for everyone who keeps a loaded gun in the house, but especially for 'unregistered' and/or John Davis,

Now as to keeping loaded guns in the house, that is your choice, but not mine. I do not. I have one near enough and ready to be loaded, so I can at least wake up and have enough of my wits about me to realize I am not shooting one of my kids. That little time taken to load is the best insurance policy against something like that happening. If a bad guy wants to take me out in my house, he has to take out dogs first, and then find me. I live in a creaky old house, lots of noise in those floor boards and loud dogs too. Then the bad guy may have one or two other surprises waiting - but they will remain surprises. In the time it does take a bad guy to break in, get past the dogs, and poast the surprises, then find me - I am betting the time is sufficient for me to load and be ready.

Better still, that time is sufficient for me to collect my wits after being awakened from a heavy sleep. Mr. Davis (?or Andy?) said:

Those of us with some sense just ALWAYS carry.

I realize that those of us, who truly have some sense, do not always carry. Some examples of when not to carry would be: while enjoying sex, while in the pool, in the ocean, on an aircraft (unless you are L/E and have the authorization), while entering a political convention, while visiting the United Nations (egads the thought makes me want to puke), while visiting any location wherein firearms are not permitted, while gambling in most casinos, at some amusement parks (some of which make no exceptions not even for LEOs), while at the gymnasium, while in the shower, when unconscious and having surgery performed, while drinking alcohol at any location - and not in bed anyhow. I would not even recommend the loaded shotgun (or any loaded gun), that Nick suggested, under the bed or within easy reach. Now a pistol or shotgun with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber might be a better idea than a gun with one loaded in the chamber. It gives you that moment to wake up and realize what is happening so you can better avoid accidentally plugging someone like your wife or children. Of course the choice is yours, hopefully you will not live to regret keeping a loaded (one in the chamber, ready to fire) firearm at hand when sleeping.

Sincerely,
Glenn B

 

[bucfan]

First let me clear up the issue of Me saying i keep a loaded 12 ga under the bed. Some times while typing I tend not to get into much great detail about somethings that I say just because I don't like to type....(I think that it is because I'm not very good at it!!) anyway my HK is loaded in the sense that there are rounds in the magazine tube. Anyone that is familiar with an Benelli shotgun will know that there is a silver lever with a red dot in the center of it on the right side of the gun. When there is a round in the magazine and this button is "pushed" the round will pop out of the magaine and stay under the bolt. Then and only when the action is pulled back (mine is an auto) will the shell be loaded into the chamber. This is a really cool feature that allows the gun to be "unloaded" that is in the sense that there is not a round in the chamber, with out having to remove all of the shells from the magazine, like on a Rem 870. And in saying this that is how I keep my shot gun in my house. When not at home or when someone is over that should not need to have access to a gun ie: kids, the gun is locked up in the safe. I hope that this clears this up. Next, great post Gleen. I can't wait to see what Mr. Delta, (that is my name for him since he will not give himslf one) will have to say next. Just out of personal perferance when somebody asks me a question I'll try and answer it to the best of my knowledge. I would still like to know about the wax rounds and cycling the action on a auto gun. Maybe I am wrong but maybe Mr. Delta carries a six wheel???? Don't know. Next, how long do you think, MR. Delta, does it take to get to a shotgun under the bed. Where do YOU keep your loaded handgun that is any faster. I sure hope you don't wear it in your sleep because you are the kind of people that gives gun owners a bad name. Next, Why in the world would you need to keep a log (notebook) on the time and distance on engaging a target inside your own home. Is this like a log that a sniper would keep? I mean come on! Lets just say worst case scenario. You are awoken at night by a serial killer inside your home. You see him and all of the members of the household are accounted for. What are YOU suppost to do, pull out your notebook and say "Ok Mr. Serial Killer you are safe by the front door but when your ass gets to the Lazy Boy your mine!" That as I see it would be the only need to hang a tarp inside your house and "one at a time" (of course if only using a auto gun) shoot wax rounds and time yourself. Mr. Delta, I think you need to heed the warnings from Gleen and pratice safer gun handling. You may just save a life. Please in your free time answer some of the questions asked on this board. All you seem to do is dodge them. Well all for now.

Nick
"Of all of the things that are against the law, having children is not one of them" My personal quote. At least I think so...

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Nick,

Yes it makes a bit better sense to have the chamber empty for a gun you grab when awakened in the wee hours. Sounds like a neat feature to keep the chamber unloaded but the shotgun fairly ready, but not one I fully understand. Even if the chamber was empty, and the bolt was forward, wouldn't pulling back on the bolt, grab one out of the mag tube to be fed as the bolt slams home again? What you describe sounds to me as if the gun is kept with a loaded mag and the action open. If that is the case, I would much prefer the action closed, nothing in the chamber, rounds ready in the mag tube. That way nothing can accidentally get into the action like dust balls under a bed. Could be I just don't get the picture though.

One note, as to the 870:

This is a really cool feature that allows the gun to be "unloaded" that is in the sense that there is not a round in the chamber, with out having to remove all of the shells from the magazine, like on a Rem 870.

The Remington never needs to be fully unloaded to keep it ready for action with none in the chamber but a loaded mag tube. If you remove the one in the chamber, then one also comes out of the mag tube ready to be loaded into the chamber as you move the slide forward. This round can be manually removed by rolling the gun over so it falls out of the ejection port into a waiting hand. Then there are still 3 in the tube, and you simply load this one into the tube to make it 4 (standard sized tube with 2 3/4 inch rounds). Of course from the get go you can load four into the mag tube and leave the chamber empty with the slide forward - often referred to as an 'Admin Load' in LE work, and often the way the gun is required to be carried in a LE vehicle (dependent upon department).

Best regards,
GB

 

[Guest]

which is why the remy sucks if you have

to fire from prone. With an autoloader, there's no issue. But then, very few shotgunners have any grasp of the realities of combat,much less the limitations of the tube fed guns.

 

[Guest]

the pistols is WORN, until sleep time,

and I KNOW your shotgun is not carried in hand all day. So you are fos, right from the start, about 3/4 of the day, even if you DO never leave the house. At night, the pistol is under the pillow, and I can grab it and empty the mag before you could roll out of bed and fire the first shot with a shotgun, period. You don't have a clue how long it takes you to get to that shotgun and cycle a round. I know that under ideal conditions, it would take you at least 3 full seconds, and yes, you DO need those dogs.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

You keep a loaded pistol under you pillow (ROTFLMAO - rolling on the floor laughing my ass off) man that is so pathetic it is really funny. There is a reported shooting (if I can find the info I will post it, but this was years ago) of a husband by a wife I think. The wife was acquitted of all charges after she blew off her husbands head because she grabbed the pistol that was under his pillow and squeezed one off, according to her, in her sleep. The only advice I can possibly give you is to keep on buying your wife lots of nice presents and keep her very happy in bed (LOL). One other thing as far as advice goes, maybe to sleep in separate twin beds as opposed to one king or queen sized bed. Man this takes the cake, a pistol under the pillow, and you say I need dogs. The whole point is you need the dogs, to help you not be, in my opinion, so paranoid. You possibly, also in my opinion, need some counseling too if you are that afraid of everything, or that reckless with pistol (is it loaded too with one in the chamber???).

Maybe you should move to a better neighborhood or make up with your enemies. As it is, I will remain foolish, at least in your eyes anyhow, and I will not keep a loaded pistols or unloaded pistols under my pillow. Nor will I keep one in a baggie under my beach blanket, or in the shower stall (or even just outside the shower). I wonder, do any of those other hiding places sound familiar to you (someone under 'unregistered' posted something like that a while back, I am almost willing to bet it was you).

By the way, a pistol under the pillow is not carrying at all times as that would not qualify for "carrying", but it quite possibly would qualify as irresponsible or even negligent if you accidentally shoot someone while sleepy.

Under the pillow (in the words of Ralph Kramden: Har har har har hardy har har!) are you kidding, you must be. Not on the night stand next to the bed where it would be less likely to be subject to an accidental grab and squeeze in your sleep, not in the drawer, not in a quick open lock box, not even in a holster on the wall, just under the pillow. Oh yes, let me guess, you are probably a disciplined sleeper who would never do that (blow off your own head accidentally with a pillow pistol). Ha, what a laugh I am having. This is the funniest thing about where someone, who in essence claims to be an expert on guns and firearms tactics, keeps a gun that I have seen in years. I really find this amusing, very funny indeed. You must be joking. Go ahead, you can admit it was all a joke if that is the case, please let us know you are only joking.

Do you really recommend keeping a loaded pistol under your pillow :bomb: when you sleep. Maybe I should not be laughing, maybe I should be reporting you to the local mental health authorities. You may be dangerous to yourself, I don't know, but I do wonder! Then again I do not know who you are so how could I report you, very clever on your part (LOL again and again).

One thing is for sure, I will not be heeding any advice you give about firearms or tactics after seeing you post this (assuming you are the same unregistered person who has been posting in this thread as unregistered all along - funny how you won't do it under a name though - are you afraid of being laughed at by your real life associates). My guess is that not too m,any others will heed your advice either.

By the way (and here I go being sarcastic again ), when you grab it and empty the mag into one of your children who came home late hours after you went to bed; or when you blast into a fireman who is trying to pull you out of your burning home and you are groggy from smoke inhalation, when you do this because you were so friggin sleepy you were not yet thinking straight :bomb: and you instead thought you were being attacked, because you did not give yourself a second or two in which to awaken yourself enough to handle a firearm, well please just let me know. I will gladly testify at your trial. If, on the other hand, you blow out your own brains with that pistol under the pillow, have your wife let me know. I will send flowers:bawling: .

Thanks for the laughs, you may have missed your calling - writing funny articles for gun magazines.

Rest peacefully and sweet dreams,
Glenn Bartley

 

[bucfan]

Gleen, The Benelli shotgun can have a loaded mag tube, and the auto action can be pulled back as many times as you like and a round WILL NOT be loaded from the mag tube unless the silver button was pushed before the action was pulled. This was a gun that was designed for LE. Lets just say that a police officer has a loaded M1, round in the chamber and a loaded mag tube, loaded with 00 buck. He is put in a spot where he needs to fire a different round outher than the 00 buck, ie slug, beanbag, or any other crazzy LE round. All he has to do is pull the auto action back and the round in the chamber will come out and the next 00 buck in the mag WILL NOT be loaded into the chamber as long as the silver button was not pushed while the 1st 00 buck was chambered. The auto action then can be pulled back as many times as you like and the rounds will not chamber from the mag tube. The loading process is not like Rem 1100 models. Then any other round can be loaded into the chamber and not disturb the 00 buck in the mag chamber. But the officer must "be on his toes" not to fire a unwanted round that will load from the mag tube into the chamber when the 1st wanted round is fired. Gleen, I suggest going to the local gun shop and checking out any of the Benelli M1's. They also come in a sporting modle, and they all have the same action. Next......Just a suspected, Mr. Delta DID NOT ANSWER ANY OF THE QUESTIONS!!!!!!You just keep dodging them. Keeping a loaded gun under your pillow is breaking most of the common sense gun safety rules. You have been watching way to many Lethal Weapon reruns on TBS. I'm now confused..........Will I call you MR. Delta, Sniper Notebook, Mr. Pillow, or Martin Riggs. I think you need to move out of The Crack House where you are so scared of being attacked at night. Next...Yes I do carry during the day, but not into places like Gleen noted above. I try to follow the CC laws the best that I know how. Please answer the questions myself and other have asked.

Nick
''ANY DAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD ONE''

 

[bucfan]

Forgot a question.............What are the limitations of a tube fed shotgun for home defense????

Nick