Firearm Forums - Arms Locker banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
you STILL can't carry more than 1 longarm and at most a couple of small, lw pistols, along with the other gear you'll have to have. At any point, you can be cut off from your little "fort" or whatever you imagine will be your setup, so basic survival gear (at least 20 lbs worth, not counting guns, ammo, body armor, mags, etc) has to be with you at all times, when you are more than a few hundred yds from "base"

So you still will have ONLY the bolt action, ONLY the .22, ONLY the ak, only the shotgun, etc, and you could easily be attacked by M16 armed men, at any place or time. You still won't have sound suppressors on them, they will still be wasteful on dogs, livestock, small game, birds, and most deer. etc. So why bother to drag them along? Why settle for the sub 200 yd range of the iron sighted AK with ball ammo (on realistic targets)? Why settle for the 100 yds with slugs (if you are lucky) with a 12 ga, or 25 yds with buckshot? Why settle for the 1.5 seconds between repeat hits of a bolt action? Why make all that noise, just to pop a rabbit, cow, or dog? You don't have to be so limited, or waste all that time and money on so many different guns.

Get a shorty AR 223, with a .22lr conversion unit, add a sound suppressor and scope, and practice a lot, and you'll have the most versatile longarm ever invented (for shtf combo of foraging and combat). It's also low cost to train with, fun to win matches with, can take varmints and deer with the 223, small game and birds with the .22 unit. So the total cost is $750, so what? Add up the price of the scoped bolt action, 22 rifle, shotgun, and ak sometime. Then add in folding stocks, luminous iron sights, trigger jobs, ambi safeties, scopes, rustproof finishes, training, ammo, accessories, etc, for all 4, and you'll end up with either a nothing much group of longarms, or $2000+ in the 4. :) Then throw in the 40+C per shot of 12 ga buck and slug practice, maybe wierdo bolt action rifle ammo, etc, and you end up with $2k a YEAR in training time and ammo, instead of $500 a year with the canned CAR-15 and .22 unit.

also, you STILL won't have a longarm that takes the GI rd, mags, parts, or conceals when taken down, is one hand usable, etc. My way is best, and it turns out to be the least expensive, too. A can on each of .22lr, Bolt action,and AK will run you almost $2000 right there, counting the fed $200 tax on each.

If have to choose, better to be "limited" to the 400 yds of the shorty CAR 15, and have to brain a moose, bear or elk with same, than have to fight with nothing more than shotgun, bolt acton, or .22. .30 Ak's a poor choice for beyond 200 yd sniping, or for taking small game or livestock, and it and its ammo are heavy-bulky.

Sure, you can silence a Ruger .22 pistol, and have a 13" long, 44 oz pistol (carried WHERE, along with pack and longarm)? If it's carried to be handy (can't be concealed, along with a pack) it's taking up belt space you need for a real sidearm. If you have to remove the pack to get at the 22 pistol, you'll miss out on some foraging shots. I prefer to keep both pistols concealed, thanks very much. The centerfire in its normal front pants pocket rig, the 9" long, 14 oz, silenced M21 Beretta in the fannypack (worn at the navel). It will take small game just fine to 15 yds or so, or put a killing hit on a big dog at 50 yds. Sure, it will run off with such a hit, but it won't be eating any more of your game, or running your livestock, etc.

However, practice with the 1022 and .22 pistol won't be helping your fighting ability with the combat rifle. practice with the .22 AR unit DOES help you snapshoot well with the (silenced ) 223. Scoped, the AR and 22 unit make it very easy to offhandedly hit a rabbit at 50 yds, in poor light. Not true of your iron sighted 22 pistol, for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,927 Posts
andy said:
you STILL can't carry more than 1 longarm and at most a couple of small, lw pistols, along with the other gear you'll have to have. At any point, you can be cut off from your little "fort" or whatever you imagine will be your setup, so basic survival gear (at least 20 lbs worth) has to be in the pack at all times, when you are more than a few hundred miles from "base"
Why cant one, if so needed? A decent variety packs have attachment points for secondary long arms. Everything is dependant on situation.

andy said:
So you still will have ONLY the bolt action, ONLY the .22, ONLY the ak, only the shotgun, etc, and you could easily be attacked by M16 armed men, at any place or time. You still won't have sound suppressors on them, they will still be wasteful on dogs, livestock, small game, birds, and most deer. etc. So why bother to drag them along? Why settle for the sub 200 yd range of the iron sighted AK with ball ammo (on realistic targets)? Why settle for the 100 yds with slugs (if you are lucky) with a 12 ga, or 25 yds with buckshot? Why settle for the 1.5 seconds between repeat hits of a bolt action? Why make all that noise, just to pop a rabbit, cow, or dog? You don't have to be so limited, or waste all that time and money on so many different guns.
Depends on the situation. In cases of direct combat, I wouldnt bring my LRPT to drag an associate from a FISH scenario, as I wouldnt bring a 16" AR by itself into a long distance scenario if I was alone. With a group, overwatch with a SWS is a valuable force multiplier, and mabye the longer distance scenario isnt something deserving of a dedicated long range shooter, and can be covered by battle rifles (a firearm type which I do not have). Weapons choice for immediate on-person carry is extremely situation dependant durring a non direct combat, bug out situation.

Also, you are excluding groups, and jumping to conclusions of direct shootouts with organized individuals another mistake. Some major benefits of precision, long distance rifle fire (the common reason for the use of a bolt action; exploitation of accuracy potential, in addition to reliability) is that large game can be taken without undue resource expenditure, minimal meat dammage, general efficient clean kills, and that such fire is a very major demoralizer upon an opposing force. Withering away opposing forces at range is also a viable tactic.

AKs can shoot over 200 yards, though their envelope of acceptable, practical performance is the same as the 16" AR at 300-400. The 7.62x39 round is a nasty thing to encounter close quarters.

Also, buckshot extends sufficiently over 25 yards. Shotguns using propper loads are also very, very nasty things to be hit with in a FISH situation.

andy said:
Get a shorty AR 223, with a .22lr conversion unit, add a sound suppressor and scope, and practice a lot, and you'll have the most versatile longarm ever invented (for shtf combo of foraging and combat). It's also low cost to train with, fun to win matches with, can take varmints and deer with the 223, small game and birds with the .22 unit. So the total cost is $750, so what? Add up the price of the scoped bolt action, 22 rifle, shotgun, and ak sometime. Then add in folding stocks, luminous iron sights, trigger jobs, ambi safeties, scopes, rustproof finishes, training, ammo, accessories, etc, for all 4, and you'll end up with either a nothing much group of longarms, or $2000+ in the 4. :) Then throw in the 40+C per shot of 12 ga buck and slug practice, maybe wierdo bolt action rifle ammo, etc, and you end up with $2k a YEAR in training time and ammo, instead of $500 a year with the canned CAR-15 and .22 unit.
It truly depends on the AO and probable situations. A shorty w/ .22 would be useless in my AO, namely as the accuracy is abominable and underpowered .223 cant buck wind for crap. The long term reliability of the AR-15 is also highly questionable. Most bolt action ammo is not weirdo, mine is, however; yet it accomplishes its purpose decently. Black Hills 308 is easy to obtain, and can actually be found at some gun shows. 500$ as an ammo+maintainence budget for serious training over the course of a whole year is very minimal in my opinion; then again I shoot matches, and reload on top of that.

'Tis all perspective and situational.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,130 Posts
If I had to I could hump 2 more long arms strapped to my Lowe Loco pack easy.

Like I said before there were times when I packed a Mini-14 , a Mossberg "Persuader" 12ga , Ruger Sec-Six and a 1911 type pistol all at the same time through the Ozark National Forest.

And that was during what you could call live SHTF training as I was looking for dopers at the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,180 Posts
I hope it works out for you gunkid, others have other ideas and options.


Option 1: Depart ahead of time to a prepared location;
Option 2: If required, stay in place, with stored kit;
Option 3: Departure of area with some sort of vehicle, with a variety of kit
Option 4: Departure of area with 3,200 cu in ruck, rifle, webbing
(prepared for 10+ days)
Option 5: Departure of area with 1,900 cu in patrol pack, rifle, webbing
(prepared for 3-4 days)
Option 6: Departure of area with rifle, webbing
(prepared for 1-2 days)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,648 Posts
Hillbilly said:
Felons can't legally have guns. :nyah:

Which is the whole basis for be ing preoccupied with SHTF. Because if that happens, he can freely wander around with guns. If SHTF, he loses the stigma of being a felon.

Think about it. His obsession kinda makes some sense in that light.

:devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
Too bad he can't also ignore the laws of reality

Yeah, he might be able to get away with that "plan" if it wasn't for the reality of the situation. Since he can't legally own guns now, he's severely limited in what he can do without worrying about going back to prison. Heck, for the last few years he's been using his parole officer as an excuse to avoid showing up for anything he's threatened to deliver on(butt-kickings, etc.). Now he doesn't have that excuse, but it won't matter. Reality is the only thing that has been stopping him all along. :bawling:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You can come find ME, you lying pos. :) i've had a standing offer for 6 years now, and none of you punks have DARED. :) You are no diffent. Either I kill you, and go on the run, or you kill me, and go to prison for it. You don't know HOW to go on the run, you wouldn't last a month before you'd just HAVE to go see your mommy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,903 Posts
Noone is coming to kill you Melvin.

But Hasher DID come to see you in Durango, right where you said you would meet him. What happened with that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,131 Posts
You can come find ME, you lying pos. :) i've had a standing offer for 6 years now, and none of you punks have DARED. :) You are no diffent. Either I kill you, and go on the run, or you kill me, and go to prison for it. You don't know HOW to go on the run, you wouldn't last a month before you'd just HAVE to go see your mommy.
What’s with the stupid challenges? You sound like a child. You toss these out because they’re so ridiculous nobody will take you up. Have you ever considered the possibility that somebody might? If they do, you’re screwed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,386 Posts
What’s with the stupid challenges? You sound like a child. You toss these out because they’re so ridiculous nobody will take you up. Have you ever considered the possibility that somebody might? If they do, you’re screwed.
He's been challenged numerous times on many Forums. He always set's up conditions that no one would agree to or excuses. "Send me $600.00 for plane fare." "I can't travel to that State because I'm on parole." At least twice that I know of he agreed to meet but of course never showed. It was a long time ago but someone sent him a plane ticket to meet for a legal (Airsoft, CO2 handgun) challenge and he tried to cash the ticket in instead. He has absolutely no intention of meeting a challenge or showing his non-existent gear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Garand and Dorobuta

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
You can come find ME, you lying pos. :) i've had a standing offer for 6 years now, and none of you punks have DARED. :) You are no diffent. Either I kill you, and go on the run, or you kill me, and go to prison for it. You don't know HOW to go on the run, you wouldn't last a month before you'd just HAVE to go see your mommy.
ROFLMAO!

"On the run" my ass! Who's the stupid douche bag that was posting right here when "on the run" and basically waving his dick out the window at the feds? Hmmmm?
Yeah boy that's REALLY knowing how to avoid getting caught.🙄
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,131 Posts
I can carry more than one rifle with my pack, plus more than one pistol if I want. Modern packs are awesome. Spend the money for a decent one and you'd be very surprised at what you can comfortably carry, and how much you can uncomfortably carry (like game bags full of elk) for long distances.

I've carried a rifle, a bow, a pistol on my hip, and one in my pack, along with all my other gear. I know what I can carry, because I've done it. What have you actually done, Boati / Andy / whoever?

Let me guess, you've thought about it, a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,349 Posts
I could fairly easily carry more than one long gun if I wanted to. I don't want to.
I could claim that James Yeager "now admits" I'm the greatest American who ever lived if I wanted to. I don't want to.
I could spend years researching how to make disposable sleeping bags from trash bags if I wanted to. I don't want to. (But you evidently do.)
I could shoot "scores of dogs" to test homemade bullets if I wanted to. I don't want to.

I could surrender to a meter maid if I wanted to. I don't want or NEED to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,180 Posts
"wont matter if all your guns are at retreat."

It is your fault if you don't preposition firearms, ammunition & supplies at your secondary location. Not everyone is as stupid as you are Melvin, that's why we have spares. Same with caches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,180 Posts
Melvin, why would it not make sense to preposition firearms and ammo at your retreat? Are you worried about the financial loss in case someone comes across where you have hidden them? Your secondary location when purchased will cost you tens of thousands of dollars to set up. You could hide some basic (read as cheap) firearms easily. For example a basic SKS, a Ruger 10/22 & a Mossberg M500 shotgun could be purchased discreetly for around $1,200 (Cdn) along with a few hundred cartridges for each. Not a big investment given the overall cost of your property, but mighty handy if you arrive at your secondary location after a WROL event without any or limited firearms. It's a commodity, no different than stocking food for a possible future event. Is it the money factor?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigEd

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,131 Posts
it won't matter if all your guns are someplace you are not at, period. There is always the possibility that you may find yourself without a firearm when you need one. This is where skills and preparation come in to play. perhaps you had a court date, so you had to be disarmed to attend. Or maybe you were flying somewhere, etc. There will be instances where you will not have a firearm.

none of which have anything to do with a retreat.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top