[Rommel]

Hello again,

I ahve some technical concerns about a turk m38...THese are some pictures to help you: (the one I want)

I have ready some stories about how turk mausers are often a "tuesday surprise casserole" of parts...ie the barrel is german imperial, the bolt is czech etc. My father also has a disdain for the gun because it is turkish.

I remind him that it is the same thing as a german k98 without a swastika on it, and that german mausers are more expensive because (partly) they are german, thus a nazi relic. Good turk 8mm mauser: 100 bucks, ok german, 250 dollars. Both are pretty damn good. Can anyone point me to some hard evidence that proves turk mausers are good, and list any potential problems a turk mauser has(weak spring, bad bolt etc)

 

[BigEd63]

Well with the exception of possible abuse by the users it was issued to it should be okay. If you buy one have the headspace checked by a reputable gunsmith in your area.

 

[Magnum88C]

Umm, actually Turkish Mausers aren't Turkish. They were made by the Czechs and sold to Turkey. Everything I've heard is positive about them. Consider that at that time, marksmanship was considered a trait of manliness to the Turks, so they no doubt demanded weapons capable of accurate shooting.

Now the Turkish ammo that was floating around a while back, I've heard some hit-and-miss about.

 

[RIKA]

As I understand, the Turk Mausers are at the lowest on the milsurp scale. I would spend a little more and go with a German or Yugo model.

RIKA

 

[BigEd63]

From what I understand there are two sources for rifles and parts the Czechs and Germans. Later the Turks assembled some of there own from parts from both sources along with standardizing on the "1938" pattern by reworking older rifles.

Now as for safety there is a concern with reworked rifles done in 1954 and later as the front reciver ring was shortened.

 

[Rommel]

Hmm, my the info given here is making me consider a turkish commission rifle. It was an m93, but reworked in 1939 to an 8mm weapon. It is in rather good condition. It is an antique so no license/ffl transfer needed...yay.

It is more expensive than a rifle made in turkey, but paying an extra 70 bucks for the scurity of german craftsmanship...it is worth it.

 

[RIKA]

If its a M93 modified for 8mm be sure to get it checked by a gunsmith. Don't use hot handloads either; being a metalface isn't attractive to girls.

RIKA

 

[BigEd63]

Whoa if it's a true variant of the German Comission Rifle and it seems they, the Turks, used a variant of that I'd pass on it.
There are too many stouter actions out there. It's not worth the risk as a shooter in my book.

 

[Rommel]

From what the seller has to say, the gun was made in the german oberndorf mauser arms factory. The gun was then sold to the ottoman empire. Thus, it is german worksmanship that found its way to turkey. It was rebarreled later on in the rearsenal in 1939.

 

[BigEd63]

Okay well one problem I have is with my system your pic is the infamous " red-X".

If it's a true Mauser 1893 then you're better off than it being a '88 pattern comission rifle as a shooter but only slightly.

The main danger is getting some ammo that is on the higher end of 8mm ammo pressures into that rifle. Also considering how "snappy" some Turk ammo can be there is a strong possibilty that it's had a diet of it.

If you want a shooter that is of Turk origin you'd actually be better off with a K.Kale made with a '98 style action.

 

[RIKA]

To add to what Ed said, the 93 Mauser was made 113 years ago. No matter how fine the workmanship was the steel just wasn't as good a quality as it was even 60 years ago. Plus its seen a lot of fights and probably eaten a lot of hot ammo as Ed says (think steel crystallization). If you want a wallhanger, I'd say get it. If you want a shooting gun then get a more modern action.

RIKA

 

[neolithic hunter]

rommel a while back you could buy factory bubba'd 6.5x55 swedish mausers. they were put together by kimber they were based on the 38 turk action. thats a large ring 98 action with a barrel cut for a small ring mauser barrel. kimber took 38 turks pulled the barrel, stuck in a 96 swedish mauser barrel. how do i know i gave one to my brother. they sold originally for 250 bucks but the last one i saw at a gun show was going for 400.00. if you buy a turk for the action you'll have to use a small ring barrel, but of it's done right it can make one heck of a good shooter. it's not a bad place to start for your first home made rifle and it will help keep the costs down and you'll learn a lot about putting one together. just remember that getting it up and running as cheap as possable is the way to go with you first effort at gun making. LOL

ps: if it is really a 93 mauser have you dad buy you one of the cheaper 38 turks in a 98 mauser pattern, you'll be a lot happier with it and probably not have to spend as much.

 

[Rommel]

My father is highly, highly cynical of anything that was assembled in turkey. I am trying to convince him that a mauser is...a mauser.

Here is the exact description: (note, I mistakenly called it a commission rifle, it was a contract rifle.)

No FFL Antique. With bayonet and sling. Made by Mauser Oberndorf between 1894 and 1896 for the Ottoman Empire. Rebarreled to 8mm and restocked with Turkish walnut pistolgrip type 1939. This 2 lug Mauser takes the standard 8mm Mauser. Very good bore, exposed blueing fading on barrel, brown or gone on receiver and trigger guard. Stock is sound and good with some typical bumps, bruises, scratches. A shootable, collectable, veteran of the Balkan Wars, Gallipoli, and innumerable border skirmishes. Plus actual shipping

Now I have heard of the problems with some of the more robust 8mm ammo. However, wouldn't the fact that it was rebarreled(in 1939) chance that? Or is the problem with the bolt mechanism itself?

 

[Magnum88C]

SOmething to be careful of also. It's rebarreled a bit late for this to be an issue, but should be checked.

It says "takes the standard 8mm Mauser". It MAY mean the 7.92 J ammo, not the later (and hotter) 7.92 JS ammo. Also the Turk ammo is overloaded even by 7.92 JS standards.

Another possible problem is that the barrel may be the earlier .318" bore, not the .323" bore -- meaning 7.92 JS ammo would be further overpressure because you might be driving a too-large bullet down the bore. Like I said, it's been rebarreled a bit late for that to be a problem, but something to check.

Finally, as stated, it's an antique. I'd keep it as a wall hanger.

You can get more modern Mausers from outfits such as AIM, Southern Ohio Gun, etc that are in good condition, and will be good shooters. Thet'd be my advice as to what to go with if you want a Mauser. Pick up a copy of Shotgun News and browse the ads, you'll find a plethora of good rifles to choose from for cheap.

 

[Rommel]

Well this mauser has historical value for me too. Now mind you, I won't be at the range every other dya and on hunting trips that require an uber-rifle. I may go to the range once every 2 months at best and fire maybe at most 8-10 clips of ammo. That isn't a heavy load. Also, the barrels put onto them during the 1939 re-arming would have more than liekly be the same ones put on the m03/38 mausers.

If worse comes to worse, how much would the average gunsmith charge to put in a mauser 98 bolt mechanism?

Edit: and if I did go on a hunting trip, I would probably bring it along anyway. Then I would say that my old '93 beat/pwned/kicked my companion's remington 700. :laugh01:

 

[neolithic hunter]

Well this mauser has historical value for me too. Now mind you, I won't be at the range every other dya and on hunting trips that require an uber-rifle. I may go to the range once every 2 months at best and fire maybe at most 8-10 clips of ammo. That isn't a heavy load. Also, the barrels put onto them during the 1939 re-arming would have more than liekly be the same ones put on the m03/38 mausers.

If worse comes to worse, how much would the average gunsmith charge to put in a mauser 98 bolt mechanism?

Edit: and if I did go on a hunting trip, I would probably bring it along anyway. Then I would say that my old '93 beat/pwned/kicked my companion's remington 700. :laugh01:

rommel it would really be cost prohibitive to try and turn a 93 or 95 mauser into a 98 mauser, to much machine work even if you could find a gunsmith that would do it. it would be cheaper to go ahead and buy a real 98 mauser to begin with. you can still get a nice shooter from AIM surplus for less than 150 bucks. this would give you a better place to start if one of these days you wanted customize it to your tastes. don't let the age or any other hype about the turk that would cause you to make a wrong decision. investigate all of your options now, so you don't wish for something else later.

there is an old saying my father used to tell me measure twice and cut once, so i went and made a bunch of bad decisions, took me a while to figure it out, but when i did, i found out the old man wasn't so dumb after all. LOL

 

[Rommel]

I saw a yugo. 98 mauser at that site you showed me for 119 dollars. Looked like a good deal.

Now, how bad could the 93 be though. Now, if I am going to need a car-jack to open/close the bolt to reload/chamber the next bullet, then alright. But it sounds like the 93 just has a slightly higher chance to be problematic.

 

[neolithic hunter]

rommel if you just have to have the 93 mauser go town. but i would consider that you have been given near a 100 yrs worth of advice not to wast your money. but if it's what you want to do, good luck and have fun.

 

[Rommel]

Well it seems you are heartset on convincing me against this. I am a rather stubborn person. But hey, these rifles served at gallipoli and barred the Hellespont against the Brits in 1915(i think it was '15).

 

[Boonie]

I've played around with a few Mausers over the years. My brother aquired several milsup at an estate auction about 4 years back. One was a mint 1942 Husaquvana Swedish small ring and an old M24 Yugo that had seen better days. The Yugo's action is sitting on my work bench waiting to be resurrected into some useful. The Swede is left orginal.

The only Turk I've examined was another my brother picked up. It was one of the 98s that was threaded for a small ring barrel. I was going to go the Turk action/Swede barrel route with it but some how my brother traded it and a few other items to a friend for an older Mako offshore boat minus outboard and trailer. A damn fine trade in my opinion.

I've seen some really nice Turk based sporters overe on the Mauser Central site. You might want to go there and check their gallery and links. Tons of Mauser info.

I also have a semi sperterized m38 Swede and of all the small rings, the swedes are probably the best.

Of the large rings the Czech VZ24 and Argentine 1909 are two of the better actions used by home rifle builders but supplies are low and prices have gone up. The Yugos and K.kales have filled the gaps.