5.7x28

the 5.7 is the same as .223 as far as bullet dia goes.
think 22 hornet or 218 bee bullets as far as reloading simular velocities.....
not sure on powders yet
looking at starting with W748 figureing it is slow enough to start and planing to work up from there. also please not MidwayUSA is selling RCBS dies for the 5.7x28 will post on them as soon as they arrive....odd size rim too...thinking same as 25acp for rim dia.
sean

 

Actually I did find a source for a die set (made by C&H Tool) but I haven't followed up with an order for one.

CH Tool. Send a money order for $84 (shipping included) to our address below
with your UPS address ( no PO Box).
Arms Depot (937) 253-4843
746 Watervliet Ave
Dayton Ohio
45420

Are you sure about the diameter of the projectiles for 5.7x28 being the same as .223 (.224)? I thought I measured them and there was a difference, but darn if I can remember how substantial it is.

One of the reasons I never followed up on the reloading die set is because I wasn't sure any components were available, much less loading data.

Please let me know if you find out any more concrete information on this.

I assume you have a FiveseveN?

 

i do have one ........
will mic the projectiles real quick here.
but if i remember right the issue of "5.7"mm was just rounded up....like 38spl is a .35 cal projectile just sounds new better and different.

OK put the digi caliper to it best i can do at home....

it is only acurrate to .001 +/- .0005

still got .224 for both

thinking i am going to have to fill several 5.7X28 cases with water and see what the capacity really is. just eyeballing it thinking .221 fire ball .218 bee and i think it is a little more than the .22 hornet.
funny thing is they list H110 for the hornet....wondering if W296,H110 might be the ticket other thoughts are 2400 or 748....really unsure thinking the 748 will be too slow....don't really wish to blow up or damage my IOM just yet

any other thoughts from others....this is new territory for me.
sean

 

oh and i forgot...
never used C&H dies....suger yes dies no
how do they compare to RCBS....hornandy...and lee?
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/816782
that will get you to the RCBS 5.7 dies

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/...lications/esearch.exe/search?category_selector=all_products&search_keywords=5.7

that will get you to the 5.70/.224 referance that makes me a little more sure of my digi calipers measurements.

only thing left is finding the lightest bullets possible best i can do so far is 40gr....and thinking they should be designed for .22 hornet speeds.

other opinions and sage like wisdom always welcome.
have a nice day
sean

 

oh and i forgot...
never used C&H dies....suger yes dies no
how do they compare to RCBS....hornandy...and lee?
......
sean

Why the admonition against C&H? I have a set of their .50BMG dies and got them AFTER rejecting the RCBS die set. With the RCBS dies I was snapping and pretzeling decapping pins about every third case. Haven't had a bit of problem with the C&H die set at all. Also bought a .50BMG case trimming tool from them as well that works well. Haven't had a bit of problem with either the stuff I got from them nor in dealing with the company itself.

Sounds like you had a bad experience?

 

lol
did not intend to flame C&H :bawling:
please note i wrote
never used

could also be written as "have no expirience with them." will attempt to be more clear in my posts.

please accept my humble apologies (no sarcasm intended)

sean

 

Oh an apology on my part as well. I think I read more into your statement then you intended to imply. :headbang:

On track of this thread, I thought I saw the 5.7x58 die set on Midway's website a little while back and it was rather expensive. Sigh, would be nice if standard .224 projectiles would work for reloading. But not sure I like the idea of experimenting in a roughly $800 gun...

BTW, have you picked up some 20 round mags for your IOM yet?

 

got two of them when i purchased the IOM
2-10rd
1-20rd
and ordered a spare 20rd.... :bawling: they would only let me purchase 1 spare 20rd i tried several more times seems the 20rd mags still a little scarce.

went thru CDNN to purchase weapon as i work part time for a gun shop doing repairs, cleanings, fitting....ect. helps me hone my gunsmithing skills and it's amazing how much I learn just listening to the old timers and factory reps( the latter can be full of BS)

well nice to know we arn't still :argue: about C&H

and as soon as the dies get here from midway i'm gonna start working up some loads...thinking i forgot to order a shell holder with 'em oh well. :headbang:

have a good one
sean

 

Man, I wish someone would come out with a little carbine in 5.7x28. Something like that Beretta Cx4 Storm would be a real fun toy in this caliber. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

This is a pretty interesting caliber, but it won't survive for long if other guns aren't made that will shoot it.

 

BTW, here's a photo I took a while back comparing the size of the cartridges for 5.7x28 and .223...

 

that looks like a umc .223

funny thing i was thinking the same thing when i bought the pistol....ammo may not be around very long. :bawling:
so i bought 2100 rds of it. will buy another case when i see which way the market is going. figure 4200rds of brass should keep me busy for a while.

i gotta assume you have one too.....after shooting a few clips have you noticed the brass dust( or flakes) in the pistol on cleaning?

i am thinking an stainless revolver would be amusing in this chambering. taurus seems to like to make odd ball revolver chamberings we may have a chance if they see a demand. i think the demand may become reality if the ammo price lowers a bit.
would make for an interesting pen gun as well. :dgrin:

aditional side note HK is making a 4.5mm as well not sure but is that about .20cal? Had a US army guy bring a handful of empties. seems the army is testing out HK's new toy at the Yuma Proving Ground. :uzi:
sean

 

Well, look at it this way. If the ammo becomes obsolete, in 30 years you could probably sell it as collectible at $1 or more per pop.

I wouldn't mind seeing a semi-auto FN P90 hit the streets. Now that the high cap mag ban has gone away, maybe that will happen. Long shot, I know, but with a 10 round limit, no way that puppy would show up in the marketplace. With a bullpup configuration to keep the 16 inch barrel from looking downright weird, I think it would look OK.

Wish they had come out with a carbine and scrapped the idea of a handgun right off the bat so the steel insert cartridges wouldn't have gotten tagged as AP. Not that I think they are any more AP then an SS109 .223, but then again, I never did understand the logic of what designates a "penetrator" and another as "armor piercing". Heck, if body armor is the determining factor, then throwing darts could be considered as armor piercing.

Yes, I have an IOM. But sad to say I only shot it once and planned to shoot it again real soon and didn't clean it. That was a couple of months ago. :crap: I sometimes worry about how many other guns I have done this too and really need a good cleaning before YEARS go by and I pull them out again.

It's a real fun gun to shoot, so I really should make an effort to play with it again soon. Really pretty accurate as well, as far as I could tell from my informal plinking. I really wouldn't mind getting night sights put on it then have it as my "nightstand" gun.

 

well forgot to order the shell holder.
there is always tomorrow to get one i guess.
so far the funniest discription i have heard of the 5.7x28 is lol
a stretched ou 25acp blown out and necked down.

 

Hey, please let me know if this is a "one of a kind" shell holder or if something common will work with it.

 

well midway is announcing coming soon for the shell holders.

in the mean time you wouldn't happent to have lyman #32 shell holder would you?

it is meant to fit 25acp

the two case head sizes are really close not sure but it would be worth a try.
my local shops here don't have one in stock and midway claims special order 30 day waiting period. gonna order one anyhow but if you have access to one this part of the subject could be layed to rest.
sean

 

update on reloading equipment

the 25acp case holder is a little too small
can and has been opened up as a hack job( dremel and patiance)
this is a really ugly method but has provided me with something that is still awaiting delivery according to midway usa.

anyone who has any wildcatting knowledge please feel more than free to chime in. will not hold anyone responsable for any failures do to thier suggestions.....after all i think this is largely uncharted territory as of now.

since this is a blowback operated pistol i intend to start with low power loads. that way the worst that should happen is the slide fails to cycle fully.
if anyone disputes this i am all ears. will be doing first run with a 40 grain hornandy V-MAX have some 35 grains on the way.

have not selected powder yet but winchester small pistol primers will be used. if i see pressure problems at the primer end...will try small rifle primers and a further reduced charge.

have some more research to do concerning powders.
more updates later.
sean

 

Did you check with C&H to see if they have a shell holder? I'm glad you mentioned it because I may very well order a die set from them and would want a shell holder along with the die set.

Heck, maybe I'll remember to measure those projectiles. I have a real nice micrometer so I should get pretty accurate readings. I know I did that once before, and I thought there was a 5/1000ths or so difference between the 5.7 and 5.56.

Going out of town for Christmas, so I'll try to remember to do that on Sunday.

 

please do measure as i posted earlier my digital calipers are only acurate to .001" +or- .0005"
and thank you for the posts at least i have someone to chat with as i work tward a possible rapid and unintentional disassembly of my newest toy.
never suffered a KaBOOM by my own reloads but did start reloading as a result of purchasing reloads that resulted in a KB of one of my pistols. fortunatly the pistol had a magazine foward of the grip and my hand was intact after words. it did dewstroy magwell and frame however irrepairably.

sean

 

too big a waste of time and money for me. Can get the same ballistics out of a 9mm, with the right bullet. High velocity does nothing for the REALISTIC range limitations of the pistolero (when he's under fire0 Everybody misses the chest (a LOT ) at a mere 25m, when under fire, no cover, no ear protction. In fact,most shots miss the chest at 10m under those same conditions.

 

too big a waste of time and money for me. Can get the same ballistics out of a 9mm, with the right bullet.

Apples and oranges.

The SS190 is the 5.7x28 mm Ball round. Its projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar). The SS190's conventional design allows it to be manufactured on existing production lines, and its lead-free composition eliminates range contamination.

Here is a pic of what the 5.7 SS192 ammo will do to a level 2 vest followed by two phone books when fired from the FN Five seveN (note that this vest stopped a .44 magnum, .357 magnum, and .45acp):

The 5.7x28, from what I have heard, was designed for initial penetration of ballistic vests and light personel armor then incapacitation through tumbling action of the projectile. So which do you think would penetrate a ballistic vest better? A 9mm diameter projectile, or a 5.7mm one, at the same velocities?

 

1st the good info....

FN used a powder that i have never seen before to load the 5.7x28
it is a ball powder very light grey and about 1/4 the diameter of W296 or H110
my thoughts are that do to grain size it is a relatively fast burning powder. but you never know. there was 6.8gr of this powder.
thinking we need to know who loads the ammo for FN and who they buy powder from.

now for the other part of this post....

too big a waste of time and money for me. Can get the same ballistics out of a 9mm, with the right bullet. High velocity does nothing for the REALISTIC range limitations of the pistolero (when he's under fire0 Everybody misses the chest (a LOT ) at a mere 25m, when under fire, no cover, no ear protction. In fact,most shots miss the chest at 10m under those same conditions.

as usual andy's mouth has engaged with no connection to the brain.
9mm same ballistics???? WTF not a chance ever hear of sectional density?
in order to accellerate that 9mm to the same velocities you would have to use one of those famous super duper can kill a T-Rex if it just passed by close enough aluminum snot rockets. you may well attain the velocity then.
:laugh01: you would be the last to understand sectional density combined with velocity is required to perform at longer ranges. your 9mm super snot rocket aluminum spit wad would lose velocity too fast to be effective over more than very personal ranges. the 5.7 will do it at 50meters.
this is sort of explained by ice picks penitrating body armour but a 357mag failing to.

further more this is a weapons platfor designed to do this from the begining not duct taped together. :nyah: and a cartridge designed to work at these pressures and velocities. it also has the recoil of a 22lr auto pistol and IS LEGAL. :nyah:

the real reason for my purchase of one.....i WANTED IT AND IT'S AN ODDITY.
second may wind up being banned and be difficult to aquire.
third because i didn't have one yet
forth because it is a differnt design.

sean

 

5.7x28 Reloading

A couple of comments for AZ Collector:

1. Thanks for the Midway link for dies. Huntingtons.com also lists dies for around the same price.
2. Couldn't agree more on reasons for acquisition. Purchased a Five-seveN last week for pretty much the same reasons.

Has anyone used dies from Huntingtons? I haven't yet (or Midway for that matter. Pretty much used Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Pacific, etc).

Hoping the ammo will get cheaper, but thinking about dies, just in case.

 

lol i could be mistaken but i have never seen a midway die.
believe they just sell redding rcbs lyman lee ect...
the quality of these is pretty well know and midways return policy/customer service is awesome.

C&H dies were recently recomended to me will have to try them out....thinking i will need one in .270

still have slightly cold feet reguarding reloading the 5.7 without any starting point. but as i am chewing through the factory ammo rapidly it looks as if reloading attempts will appear soon.

any info out there that is note posted by gun kid would be rather helpful.
sean

 

Reloading Data

You were absolutely right. Midway and Huntingtons both sell RCBS dies.
I received mine earlier this week.
I currently have requests in to all the major powder manufacturers and also the major bullet manufacturers for any reloading data they might have. No joy yet.
There do seem to be .224 35gr HP slugs available, if we can find the charge info.

If I get anything useful, I'll post it.

 

you never heard of MISSING, while under fire, at 10 ft, dummy? Sectional density my ass. First you have to HIT the guy who's wearing the armor. How about you put on a 24 layer vest, and let me pop ONE rd of 55 gr, 2100 fps Split NOse at it, from 10ft away, hmm? No CHANCE it will go thru it, right? I mean, those 25 gr brass .25 ACP's, at 1200 fps, never made it thru the Safariland vest. I was just imagining it. Same thing with those 180 gr brass .45's, at 1100 fps. Those big holes in the vest just appeared there by magic. I have no CLUE what I'm talking about.